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Thread: Crazy Discrepancy on Living DNA vs. 23andme

  1. #11
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    Couldn't hold it, so I bought the FTDNA assessment.... And it doesn't help either...

    European 77%
    -Iberia 50%
    -East Europe 18% (?)
    -British Isles 7%
    -Southeast Europe 2%
    Jewish Diaspora 9% (???)
    -Sephardic 6%
    -Ashkenazi 3%
    New World 7%

    Now I'm Jewish 9% too... And ZERO French...

    At least the 50% Iberian got consistent between 23andme and FTDNA. I got very little Italian though... And a lot of East Europe. And they removed all my 1-2% African.

    Am I too mixed for these tests? I guess so.

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     FionnSneachta (06-13-2017)

  3. #12
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    I still see 23andme as the best test. The 49.2% Iberian 12.6% Italian and 12% Broadly Southern European is the closest yet to your Iberian and Italian ancestry especially when you consider what full Iberians get and the fact that you have some Native American.

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  5. #13
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    I just finally got updated to The New 23andMe, it slightly changed some percentages.

    Fwiw, I'm showing the 23andme results before and after phasing with parents and grandparents:
    before / after (New 23andme)
    28.8% / 50.1% Iberian
    6.3% / 13.2% Italian
    32.1% / 11.4% Broadly Southern European
    4.7% / 5.1% French & German
    2.5% / 0.3% British & Irish
    5.4% / 3.9% Broadly Northwestern European

    So, at first they were pretty uncertain, but eventually made up their minds.

    This is the composition of my grandfather who's the son of two Italians:
    36.8% Italian
    9.8% Balkan
    1.1% Iberian
    0.6% Sardinian
    12.1% Broadly Southern European
    14.1% French & German
    3.6% British & Irish
    12.4% Broadly Northwestern European
    1.1% Eastern European
    8.5% Broadly European

    I love the ancestry timeline. It got some stuff pretty accurate.
    Earliest ancestor is Italian, from 1870 to 1930, matching all my documented Italian ancestry. Iberian between 1840 to 1900, matching my Iberian migrations. French & German in 1870 to 1780, and matches a distant German ancestor. It's also funny that my Native American is so far back, even though I have around 8-9% native american, and that tells me a lot about Brazilian population genetics.

    Not allowed to post links, so patch it up:
    i64 . tinypic . com / 2z553df . png

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     Larth (07-21-2017)

  7. #14
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    Got the updated results for Living DNA's Complete and Cautious DNA mapping.

    Cautious
    Northwestern Europe 61.6%
    South Italy 17.7%
    Iberian Peninsula 5.1%
    Europe unassigned 3.7%
    Mesoamerica 6.3%
    Yorubaland 1.7%
    North China 1.6%
    World unassigned 2.2%

    Complete
    France 58.2%
    South Italy 9.5%
    Tuscany 8.2%
    Iberian Peninsula 2.8%
    Sardinia 2.2%
    West Balkans 2.6%
    Northeast Europe 1.1%
    England & Wales 3.4%
    Mesoamerica 6.3%
    Asia Pashtun 1.6%
    Africa Yorubaland 1.7%
    Asia North China 1.6%

    The results still really intrigue me. 23andme is more accurate in tracking with the paper trail, but I wonder if there is some truth to Living DNA's methodology still.

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     sktibo (06-21-2017)

  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by asbr View Post
    Got the updated results for Living DNA's Complete and Cautious DNA mapping.

    Cautious
    Northwestern Europe 61.6%
    South Italy 17.7%
    Iberian Peninsula 5.1%
    Europe unassigned 3.7%
    Mesoamerica 6.3%
    Yorubaland 1.7%
    North China 1.6%
    World unassigned 2.2%

    Complete
    France 58.2%
    South Italy 9.5%
    Tuscany 8.2%
    Iberian Peninsula 2.8%
    Sardinia 2.2%
    West Balkans 2.6%
    Northeast Europe 1.1%
    England & Wales 3.4%
    Mesoamerica 6.3%
    Asia Pashtun 1.6%
    Africa Yorubaland 1.7%
    Asia North China 1.6%

    The results still really intrigue me. 23andme is more accurate in tracking with the paper trail, but I wonder if there is some truth to Living DNA's methodology still.
    FWIW as a person with actual French ancestry I get 0% in France, and I believe Living DNA includes a disclaimer in their France category write up stating it can be easily confused for Iberian or English. Because I don't have any French assignment on living DNA I can't actually access this and quote it directly. I suspect their sampling is incredibly low, we know that for Ireland it is a reference population of 7.. wouldn't be surprised if Iberia and France were minimal too.

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  11. #16
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    SOLVED! Damn, that's really interesting!!!! I didn't notice there was a disclaimer! Thank you! That's it below, it explains so much!!

    +++++

    Technical Note

    The DNA of people from France in our reference dataset is intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA, with few genetic regions or mutations that are unique to French people.

    If you have French ancestry inferred that you didn’t expect: We have observed that mixtures of British and Italian ancestry can sometimes be partly mistaken for French. Other mixtures such as of Germanic and Spanish ancestry involving countries neighbouring France may behave similarly. These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently, compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past. French ancestry is also similar to British ancestry for people who have ancestry from all over the UK.

    If you have French ancestry but it was not inferred as strongly as you expected: French ancestry will only be perfectly recovered if you resemble the French individuals in our panel, from the North of the country. Ancestry from other regions of France will use some of the neighbouring populations. South East England is the most common substitute from the UK.

    +++++

    That was actually my theory!!!

    Since I have weird a mix, on my 88% European ancestry, of North Italy, Germany-ish (German adventurers in Brazil + a recent Tyrolese Austrian ancestor) and Iberia, they would somehow allocate the hell out of my DNA (58.2%!) to French people who happen to be in the middle, and probably be to some extent mixed in a similar way. And that's maybe the problem with 23andme who's not allocating my fair share of Northern European DNA - I'm only 5% French German and that doesn't make any sense.

    "These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently", such as from neighboring countries, "compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past."

    Which tells me, that, for these guys, in a weird way, my DNA make up sort of resembles French, because I have a strong "intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA". This is why I started this DNA stuff, cause I knew it wasn't as simple as Italian + Iberian + some Native American, since my Italian ancestry was not supposed to be very Italian, and I had occasional Northern European stints here and there.
    Last edited by asbr; 06-21-2017 at 10:03 PM.

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  13. #17
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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by asbr View Post

    This is the composition of my grandfather who's the son of two Italians:
    36.8% Italian
    9.8% Balkan
    1.1% Iberian
    0.6% Sardinian
    12.1% Broadly Southern European
    14.1% French & German
    3.6% British & Irish
    12.4% Broadly Northwestern European
    1.1% Eastern European
    8.5% Broadly European

    I love the ancestry timeline. It got some stuff pretty accurate.
    Earliest ancestor is Italian, from 1870 to 1930, matching all my documented Italian ancestry. Iberian between 1840 to 1900, matching my Iberian migrations. French & German in 1870 to 1780, and matches a distant German ancestor. It's also funny that my Native American is so far back, even though I have around 8-9% native american, and that tells me a lot about Brazilian population genetics.

    Not allowed to post links, so patch it up:
    i64 . tinypic . com / 2z553df . png
    His ancestry comes from Northern provinces of Italy?

  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaring View Post
    His ancestry comes from Northern provinces of Italy?
    Yep, he's half Tyrolean (Lavarone) and half Tuscan (Pisa)

  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by asbr View Post
    SOLVED! Damn, that's really interesting!!!! I didn't notice there was a disclaimer! Thank you! That's it below, it explains so much!!

    +++++

    Technical Note

    The DNA of people from France in our reference dataset is intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA, with few genetic regions or mutations that are unique to French people.

    If you have French ancestry inferred that you didn’t expect: We have observed that mixtures of British and Italian ancestry can sometimes be partly mistaken for French. Other mixtures such as of Germanic and Spanish ancestry involving countries neighbouring France may behave similarly. These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently, compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past. French ancestry is also similar to British ancestry for people who have ancestry from all over the UK.

    If you have French ancestry but it was not inferred as strongly as you expected: French ancestry will only be perfectly recovered if you resemble the French individuals in our panel, from the North of the country. Ancestry from other regions of France will use some of the neighbouring populations. South East England is the most common substitute from the UK.

    +++++

    That was actually my theory!!!

    Since I have weird a mix, on my 88% European ancestry, of North Italy, Germany-ish (German adventurers in Brazil + a recent Tyrolese Austrian ancestor) and Iberia, they would somehow allocate the hell out of my DNA (58.2%!) to French people who happen to be in the middle, and probably be to some extent mixed in a similar way. And that's maybe the problem with 23andme who's not allocating my fair share of Northern European DNA - I'm only 5% French German and that doesn't make any sense.

    "These issues are because it is difficult to tell apart having mixed ancestry recently", such as from neighboring countries, "compared to having French ancestry causing sharing of DNA with people from similar regions, a little further in the past."

    Which tells me, that, for these guys, in a weird way, my DNA make up sort of resembles French, because I have a strong "intermediate between Northern and Southern European DNA". This is why I started this DNA stuff, cause I knew it wasn't as simple as Italian + Iberian + some Native American, since my Italian ancestry was not supposed to be very Italian, and I had occasional Northern European stints here and there.
    happy to have helped!

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     Artisius (06-22-2017)

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