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Thread: Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have common paternal roots! (new study)

  1. #11
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    could be as e-m123 was present in late bronze age /early iron age armenia
    so maybe it was a big bronze age expansion probably from south levant to cyprus
    and also north east to armenia area .
    today m123 is low in armenia


    regards
    Adam


    p.s
    only ancient dna from cyprus can solve this question better from some periods .... neolithic, Chalcolithic , bronze age , iraon age
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Cyprus

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    could be as e-m123 was present in late bronze age /early iron age armenia
    so maybe it was a big bronze age expansion probably from south levant to cyprus
    and also north east to armenia area .
    today m123 is low in armenia


    regards
    Adam


    p.s
    only ancient dna from cyprus can solve this question better from some periods .... neolithic, Chalcolithic , bronze age , iraon age
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Cyprus
    Still surprisingly common among Kurds and Turks in Eastern Anatolia!

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  5. #13
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    it is also high in palestinians
    almost as high as in cyprus

    http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00547-8

    Zalloua et al. (2008) found 26 E-M123 cases in Cyprus, out of 164 men tested; and 27 Palestinians out of 291 tested. This was apparently higher than the level of E-M78.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplog...baiKhalife2008

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    Great Principe, please let us know! Given that the majority of Greek Cypriot samples have been SNP-tested, it would be good to see whether the Nevgen predictor is in agreement with the SNP testing..
    I just finished, I am going to post the results of the Greek Cypriot J2 and compare the two. The J2 samples are not well snp tested, for J2a they give you J-M410 or L26 and for J2b they have M205 or M102 predicted, anyways I nevgen predicted all of them to make sure, and 3 J2's in the Turkish Cypriot set were actually better predicted as T's thats why I got 83 instead of the 86 posted.

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  9. #15
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    For Greek Cypriot J2 there was 102 samples, I nevgen predicted all of them as well.

    Here is the Breakdown:

    1. J2b-M205: 16
    2. J2a1-Z387: 14
    3. J2a1-M319: 13
    4. J2a1-Z500: 12
    5. J2a1-Z7700: 10 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    6. J2a1-PF5191: 7
    7. J2a1-S25258: 7
    8. J2a2-PF5008: 7
    9. J2a1-L210: 6
    10. J2b-M241: 4
    11. J2a1-Z7671: 3
    12. J2a1-Z6065: 3

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  11. #16
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    Now to compare Greek and Turkish Cypriot J2 there is quite a few notable differences and observations to be made. First the Turkish Cypriots have a J2a lineage that is unique to them which is J2a1-PF7431, it seems that this J2a was brought into Cyprus from the Turks. The remaining 12 are all the same but different frequencies of course. The largest J2a amongst the Turkish Cypriots is J2a-Z7700 (J-F3133) at 16 of 83 samples or 19.2% while in Greek Cypriots it is 10 out of 102 or 9.8%, J-F3133 has many branches and there is probably shared lineages and also specific Turkish Cypriot J-F3133 lineages for it to be double than the Greek Cypriots. The largest J2 lineage amongst Greek Cypriots is J2b-M205 at 16 of 102 (15.8%) and amongst Turkish Cypriots it is much lower at 5 of 83 (6%), this can be due to where the people were sampled as J2b-M205 is a definite Levantine line as we started seeing it in the ancient samples of Sidon, Roman Gladiator, Bronze Age Jordan and Egypt.

    There is sharp increases and decreases in certain lineages as well, in Turkish Cypriot J2a-S25258 was found in 1 out of 83, while in Greek Cypriot samples it was found in 7, same with J2a-Z7671 as it was found in 1 Turkish Cypriot, while being found in 3 Greek Cypriots. Also J2a2-PF5008 was found in 3 Turkish Cypriots and more than doubles being found in 7 Greek Cypriots. The largest increase though is found in J2a-Z387 as it was found in 7 Turkish Cypriots and it doubles to 14 amongst Greek Cypriots reaching 13.7% and is the second most common in Greek Cypriots. In retrospect J2a-PF5191 and J2a-Z6065 increase in Turkish Cypriots, J2a-PF5191 is found in 7 Greek Cypriots while it is found in 11 Turkish Cypriots. J2a-Z6065 is found in 6 Turkish Cypriots and decreases in half to 3 in Greek Cypriot samples, this may be due to different subclades of the two.

    The remaining 4 lineages have more or less the same frequency amongst both populations. J2a-L210 is found in 5 Turkish Cypriot samples and 6 Greek Cypriot samples staying at around 6%, the same can be said for J2b-M241 as it is found in 3 Turkish Cypriots and 4 Greek Cypriots staying at around the 3.5-4% range. J2a-Z500 also remains the same at 11 Turkish Cypriot samples and 12 Greek Cypriot samples staying around the 12% range and J2a-M319 does the same being found also in 11 Turkish Cypriot samples and 13 Greek Cypriot samples also around the 12% range.

    More extensive research or look needs to be done, because many of these subclades are old and have many downstreams for example just under J2a-Z7671 there is 4 major branches.

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  13. #17
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    Quoted from the paper.

    "Regarding the relatively high frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups among TCy, which is not much lower than those observed among mainland Turks, it should be noted that some of the original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci) did not originate from Anatolia, but from other regions of the Ottoman Empire, including regions of the Caucasus and Central Asia, comprising of ethnic groups such as Tatars, Nogay, and Turkmen, which could provide a potential explanation for this observation."

    How could they come up with such ridiculous "potential explanation"? This is what happens when they pretend to be historians.

    This part is pure gold.
    original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci)

    These were the names of the military units that were formed long after the establishment of the Ottoman Beylik/Principality.

    Early Ottomans were basically warrior ghazis and tribesmen following Osman I
     




    Akinjis (meaing raiders) were composed of tribal Turks from Anatolia with a leading dynasty that descended from the warrior ghazis of the first Ottoman ruler Osman I.

    Azabs (meaning bachelors) were light infantrymen that were positioned at the center of the army together with Janissaries.

    Sekbans were a unit from a much later period.


    Nogays and Tatars were not part of these units, not to mention Turkmens of Central Asia who were not even part of the Ottoman Empire. The Crimean Khanate accepted Ottoman protection during Mengli Giray's reign and Crimean Tatars became the vanguard of the Ottoman Army and replaced Akinji units, but what does it have anything to do with Cyprus?

    The Turkish migration to Cyprus and its details are already documented, why come up with such ridiculous historical explanations?

    Transfer of Qizilbash Turkmens from Anatolia to Cyprus http://www.unm.edu/~phooper/thesis_condensed.pdf







    "Another potential explanation could be that the Ottoman settlers of the 16th century and their ancestors, were particularly successful in passing on their genes (i.e. had a relatively high number of offspring), which would then lead to some kind of genetic drift, increasing thus the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups."

    The haplogroups that came to Cyprus with the migration of mainland Turks (e.g. Qizilbash) were not necessarily East Eurasian, in fact West Eurasian haplogroups were predominant among those Turks.

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by basmaci View Post
    Quoted from the paper.

    "Regarding the relatively high frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups among TCy, which is not much lower than those observed among mainland Turks, it should be noted that some of the original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci) did not originate from Anatolia, but from other regions of the Ottoman Empire, including regions of the Caucasus and Central Asia, comprising of ethnic groups such as Tatars, Nogay, and Turkmen, which could provide a potential explanation for this observation."

    How could they come up with such ridiculous "potential explanation"? This is what happens when they pretend to be historians.

    This part is pure gold.
    original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci)

    These were the names of the military units that were formed long after the establishment of the Ottoman Beylik/Principality.

    Early Ottomans were basically warrior ghazis and tribesmen following Osman I
     




    Akinjis (meaing raiders) were composed of tribal Turks from Anatolia with a leading dynasty that descended from the warrior ghazis of the first Ottoman ruler Osman I.

    Azabs (meaning bachelors) were light infantrymen that were positioned at the center of the army together with Janissaries.

    Sekbans were a unit from a much later period.


    Nogays and Tatars were not part of these units, not to mention Turkmens of Central Asia who were not even part of the Ottoman Empire. The Crimean Khanate accepted Ottoman protection during Mengli Giray's reign and Crimean Tatars became the vanguard of the Ottoman Army and replaced Akinji units, but what does it have anything to do with Cyprus?

    The Turkish migration to Cyprus and its details are already documented, why come up with such ridiculous historical explanations?

    Transfer of Qizilbash Turkmens from Anatolia to Cyprus http://www.unm.edu/~phooper/thesis_condensed.pdf







    "Another potential explanation could be that the Ottoman settlers of the 16th century and their ancestors, were particularly successful in passing on their genes (i.e. had a relatively high number of offspring), which would then lead to some kind of genetic drift, increasing thus the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups."

    The haplogroups that came to Cyprus with the migration of mainland Turks (e.g. Qizilbash) were not necessarily East Eurasian, in fact West Eurasian haplogroups were predominant among those Turks.
    Very comprehensive analysis, but how can you explain then that the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups is much higher among Turkish Cypriots than among Greek Cypriots? In Greek Cypriots they practicality do not exist, as is the case for all other Eastern Mediterranean populations, apart from mainland Turks. Is this just coincidental??

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  17. #19
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    @Principe
    Your analysis of the J2 haplotypes is beyond words. Thanks for that! Can you elaborate a bit more on the ancestral significance of some of these J2 subclades? Thanks.

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  19. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    @Principe
    Your analysis of the J2 haplotypes is beyond words. Thanks for that! Can you elaborate a bit more on the ancestral significance of some of these J2 subclades? Thanks.
    My pleasure I am now working on other haplogroups, I am posting J1 breakdown right now, do you have any particular questions about specific J2 subclades?

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