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Thread: Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have common paternal roots! (new study)

  1. #41
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    @Principe

    Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

    Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

    Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    @Principe

    Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

    Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

    Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.
    It *looked* like some of them were V88, including a haplotype shared between Greek and Turk Cypriots, probably some L277 based on the DYS392=14 value, but without SNPs, they are big time guesses. Some of them also could be L51+ and descendants based on DYS393=13, but even that we know is a big guess too.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  4. #43
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    For the Breakdown of G

    As you see amongst Turkish Cypriots because of less markers the predictors are more broad than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot G, the number is 53

    1. G-M406: 14
    2. G-L497: 13
    3. G-PF3147: 10
    4. G-U1: 5
    5. G-M342: 5 (G1)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-L293: 2

    For Greek Cypriot G, the number is 44

    1. G-U1: 8
    2. G-L497>CTS4803: 7
    3. G-PF3147: 7
    4. G-L293: 4
    5. G-PF3359: 4 (Not found in Turkish Cypriots)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-M406>Z17887: 3
    8. G-M406>L14: 3
    9. G-M406>M3302: 2
    10. G-M342: 1 (G1)
    11. G-L497>L43

    I was really surprised with the high G-L497 in Cypriots.

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  6. #44
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    For Haplogroup I2 breakdown, it is much higher in Turkish Cypriots than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot I2, the number is 26

    1. I-P37: 18
    2. I-L596: 4 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 4

    For Greek Cypriot I2, the number is 9

    1. I-P37: 6
    2. I-L596: 2 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 1

    Essentially they both look the same except Turkish Cypriots have 3x the amount of I2.

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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    @Principe

    Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

    Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

    Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.
    I think that is true, R1a in Cyprus should not be Slavic, odds are this R1a could have been more popular in Ancient Greece? I think after looking at many haplogroups and all the Breakdowns I think E-V13 and R1b-Z2103 were the primary Greek markers in Cyprus, If you look at the breakdowns I did, you will notice that Turkish Cypriots have quite a few extra lineages than Greek Cypriots, but overall nothing major, rough estimate they are roughly 85-90% the same paternally.

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  10. #46
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    It might be worth noting that in addition to Turkish/Ottoman input and simple drift, the 'natural' distribution of the communities (i.e. pre-1974) might also be playing a part in the differences in haplogroup and subclade distributions. In 1956:

    cyp_1956_dist.jpg

    Note that Turks are more common in the west than the north and east of the island. I can't remember any exact figures off the top of my head, but Turks were roughly twice as frequent in the west as the far east of the island.

    It would be interesting to know whether Greek Cypriot haplogroup and subclade distributions show signs of geographical structure.

    NB: shame the authors didn't use Nevgen, they would have found that HT036 among the Turks (yours truly) is G-U1 and not unclassifiable...

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  12. #47
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    Based on the previous study [Voskarides, 2016] there are some patterns:

    East:
    Highest 'R1b-M589' in Ammochostos, 5.7%
    'L-M20' also higher in Ammochostos, 4.1%
    Highest I2-M436 in Ammochostos, 4,1%

    Highest R1a-Z93 in Larnaka, 4.5%
    Highest E-V13 in Larnaka, 9%
    Highest 'R1b-Z2105*' in Larnaka, 7.5%
    Highest I2-M423 in Larnaka, 6%

    South West:
    Highest 'R1a--Z282*' + R1a-M-458 in Paphos, 7.6%
    Highest 'J2a-M67*' in Paphos, 9.5%
    Highest J2a-M92 in Paphos, 6.7%
    Highest J2b-M241 in Paphos, 1.9%
    Second highest J2b-M205 also in Paphos, 9.5%


    South:
    Highest 'G2a-P303*' in Limassol, 7.1%
    Highest J2a-Z387 in Limmasol, 10.3%

    North:
    Highest 'J1-Page8' in Kyreneia, 14.6%
    Highest E-M34 also in Kyreneia, 18.8%
    Highest E-V22 in Kyreneia 8.3%
    Highest J2b-M205 in Kyreneia, 10,4%
    Last edited by Kanenas; 06-22-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnd View Post
    It might be worth noting that in addition to Turkish/Ottoman input and simple drift, the 'natural' distribution of the communities (i.e. pre-1974) might also be playing a part in the differences in haplogroup and subclade distributions. In 1956:

    cyp_1956_dist.jpg

    Note that Turks are more common in the west than the north and east of the island. I can't remember any exact figures off the top of my head, but Turks were roughly twice as frequent in the west as the far east of the island.

    It would be interesting to know whether Greek Cypriot haplogroup and subclade distributions show signs of geographical structure.

    NB: shame the authors didn't use Nevgen, they would have found that HT036 among the Turks (yours truly) is G-U1 and not unclassifiable...
    Indeed valid observation about sub-structure within Cyprus. Given that converting from Christianity to Islam occurred more frequently in specific areas (which it did) indeed this might also explain differences in haplogroup frequencies between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.

    Also valid point about the Nevgen predictor. Unfortunately, Journals are quite cautious with haplogroup predictor tools and they would usually accept such data only coming from validated haplogroup predictors. Do not forget that Whit Athey's Haplogroup predictor has been validated in a peer-reviewed study, while the Nevgen predictor has never been validated, although I agree that it is an excellent tool.

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  15. #49
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    @Principe
    Thank you once more for this amazing work. I have made a few comments about the origin of some of the major haplogroup subclades you have predicted, but it would be great if you could briefly summarize your main conclusions from your prediction analysis. I mean only the major things that stand out in your opinion. Cyprus has received population influx from the Levant, Anatolia and SE Europe, so it would be great if we could shed some more light on which haplogroups came from where.

    @Kanenas
    Thanks for bringing the Voskarides et al study in the discussion. Basically they have tested more SNPs among Greek Cypriots, but they have not engaged into detailed STR-based analysis and they also do not include Turkish Cypriot data in their study. Actually, the new Heraclides et al study includes all results after combining their sample with the previous Voskarides et al sample (Supplementary material). There is also a breakdown of haplogroup frequencies with the two Greek Cypriot samples combined (S6 Table).

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  17. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    @Principe
    Thank you once more for this amazing work. I have made a few comments about the origin of some of the major haplogroup subclades you have predicted, but it would be great if you could briefly summarize your main conclusions from your prediction analysis. I mean only the major things that stand out in your opinion. Cyprus has received population influx from the Levant, Anatolia and SE Europe, so it would be great if we could shed some more light on which haplogroups came from where.
    As always it is my pleasure. Okay I will give my opinion on which haplogroups came from where and I would like to state before that my opinion is not necessarily the absolute truth but this is what I believe. I think the Neolithic or the oldest subclades in Cyprus are E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830. Then Philia culture which would be from Anatolia (Cilicia to be exact) associated with the Red Ware to be the speakers of the Eteo-Cypriot language which I believe (not everyone) to be related to the Hurrians and the Kura-Araxes expansion to have brought a good portion of the J2a in particular J2a-M319, J2a-L210, J2a-Z6065, J2a-Z7671 and some of the J2a-Z500 (which needs further inspection), along with G-M406 and G-L293 (Z6553 on Yfull), T-L208, L-M317 and J1-Z1828. From the Levant would have came J2b-M205, all J1-P58, E-V12>CTS693, E-V22 (originally Egyptian), R1b-V88 and remainder of J2a except the few that came with the Greeks. Deeper subclades of the ones I mentioned for the Philia Culture can also be Levantine in origin, I think ancient dna and ngs testing will help clarify this, regardless these are the subclades that I believe came from Anatolia and the Levant. For Greek be it Mycenaeans and the later migrations they brought E-V13, R1b-Z2103, R1a, I-P37, J2b-M241, the remainder of G and the rest of J2a, with haplogroups such J2a-Z500 (some it all depends on a deeper look), J2a-S25258, and J2a-Z387 (this needs a deeper look, could also be earlier).
    Last edited by Principe; 06-21-2017 at 02:36 PM.

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