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Thread: Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have common paternal roots! (new study)

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Remember that J2b-M205 was found in 4 ancient samples including Bronze Age Sidon (One of the main Phoenician cities), people move around, J2b-M205 in Cyprus is very likely I would even say 95% to be Levantine in origin. Maybe that has to do with Greek groups that came to Crete and Cyprus?
    I am not really interested much about the origins of any haplogroups but the sample in Bronze Age Sidon is labeled as J2b-M12(xJ2b2a-L283). So, Trojet writes that it is 'most likely' J2b-M205.
    J2b-M12(xM205, xM241) exists in Cyprus, in Ammochostos.

    The sample from Jordan seems more important to me but I don't know which non-Levantine groups could have had it in the Bronze Age, if any.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanenas View Post
    Some of the R1b in Crete can be Italic (Venetian) though. In Cyprus too, some regions have 1.5-2% R1b-U152, for example. Some of it can be from Anatolia.

    'Lasithi Plataeu' in Crete has high R1a & R1b but there is a recent founder effect probably and the population is small (2,387).

    .
    Before the venetians who where less than 100 years in cyprus, there was the Genoese and before this the Franks..............all would have R1b


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Before the venetians who where less than 100 years in cyprus, there was the Genoese and before this the Franks..............all would have R1b
    There is no reason to say that to me. I meant 'in Cyprus too' there might be 'Italic' (from Italy, not 'Proto-Italic') haplogroups, which may include yours even.

  4. #64
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    Just want to add because Paphos has been mentioned, I looked at all the cities, towns and villages on Wikipedia to see what I can find, majority of Paphos was already inhabited since neolithic times and had towns during the Bronze Age, there is contacts with the Near East too, the Cult of Aphrodite was idolized there and is very likely Syrian in origin so there's the link with the Levant, also a coastal village was important to the New Kingdom Egyptians. In terms of Greek we have one Mycenaean colony and many links with Corinth, Achaea and Arcadia. There was also an Armenian and Georgian village along with 2 Venetian and 2 Lusignan villages.

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  6. #65
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    Indeed both Cyprus and Crete were ruled by Western Europeans (Venetians in Crete; Franks/Venetians/Genoese in Cyprus). I believe Crete received a higher Medieval Italian admixture than Cyprus though, as the Heraclides et al study, which included a large representative sample of Y-chromosomes, as well as all YHRD Italian samples (n=3366) identified very limited number of shared Y-haplotypes between Cyprus and Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    Indeed both Cyprus and Crete were ruled by Western Europeans (Venetians in Crete; Franks/Venetians/Genoese in Cyprus). I believe Crete received a higher Medieval Italian admixture than Cyprus though, as the Heraclides et al study, which included a large representative sample of Y-chromosomes, as well as all YHRD Italian samples (n=3366) identified very limited number of shared Y-haplotypes between Cyprus and Italy.
    The Venetian R1b ( north East italy ) is a different branch from the Genoese and Frankish R1b ..........one can easily test these Cypriots /cretans of which R1b they came from


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amathusian View Post
    @Principe

    Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

    Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

    Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.
    Turkish Cypriots had higher presence in Paphos(25%) and Larnaca area(21%)(other regions 15% excluding North Nicosia which attracted TCs from all over the Island as it was the administrative and cultural and political center of T/C paraller administration- 20%).Especially in a region known as Tylliria which legends have it people from epirus were settled as soldiers during the byzantine era. Voskarides Study shows relative variation of haplogroups between the regions of Cyprus among G/cypriots so same I expect would apply with T/Cypriots.
    Pafos has 10% of the population but 25% of the I2, and Larnaca 12% and 33% of the I2. Balkanic Garrisons stationed in Cyprus could be another source.Taking in mind that the Bulk of the ottoman army was Slave soldiers, Jenissaries, and Albanian mercenaries , then that would be another source of the relative higher I2
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0179474.s013
    https://web.archive.org/web/20180102...df?OpenElement
    Last edited by parapolitikos; 10-12-2020 at 09:18 AM.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    The Turkish Cypriots also carry many additional North African and African lines than the Greek Cypriot population, with E-V65, E-M81, E-V32 (E-V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.
    Not Surprisingly.Turks practiced Slavery all the way to the end of the Ottoman empire after WW1. Ottoman Cyprus wasn't an exception.That fact maybe shocking but it was the norm in Islamic countries, especially if you consider the fact that Salvery in several Muslim countries was practiced until the mid 20thst century.
    African slaves were the bulk of the slave for the later third of the Ottoman era.The rise of the Russian Empire put an end to the Tatar slave trade and as a consequence of the Turko-Russian wars, Russia became de facto the protector of the christian people of the ottoman empire, which led to Ottomans treating more carefully their Christians subjects. Blacks would enjoy similar considerations only a century later. Christians on the other hand couldnt own slaves in the Ottoman era.

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