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Thread: Cornish and Breton ancestry and DNA

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
    Are you sure he was 100% Breton?
    There is no "Micou" bornt between 1891 and 1915 in Nantes region. Only 3 people in Finistère département but I doubt they are completely native. Micou looks like a typical Vendéen or Poitevin surname according to Geopatronyme - Micou
    All I really know is that he was from Nantes and his wife was Margaret LeRoy.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    All I really know is that he was from Nantes and his wife was Margaret LeRoy.
    Do you want us (french from britanny) to search for him ?

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    All I really know is that he was from Nantes and his wife was Margaret LeRoy.
    Here is what i found on Geneanet, he was not breton, but from Charente-Maritime via his paternal line.
    His mother's surname is not really common

    M Paul Micou Family Tree(Paul Micou III) (Paul Huguenot Immigrant)


    Born 29 June 1659 - Nantes, Loire-Atlantique, Pays de la Loire, France
    Baptized 10 July 1659 - French Reformed Church, Cozes, Charente-Maritime, France

    Deceased 23 May 1736 - Essex, Colony of Virginia, British Colonial America, aged 76 years old
    Buried in May 1736 - Port Micou, Essex County, Colony of Virginia, British Colonial America
    Justice of the Peace, educated to the Bar, physician


    https://gw.geneanet.org/pinkpops222?n=micou&oc=1&p=paul

    EDIT: But I am sure you have all this information for a long time.
    Last edited by Helgenes50; 10-13-2019 at 08:23 AM.
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    If you are back to the 1650s maybe you can stretch things and connect with the pedigrees in the Visitations of Cornwall?
    https://ukga.org/england/Cornwall/visitations/ has a version with some lines updated from around 1620 to later.
    Some pedigrees are doubtful. Don't know whether this was during the audits by the College of Arms, or due to the additions by Vivian beyond 1620 later.
    My lines that appear can be verified to some degree from appearing in more than one place in that work, and also from some other sources.
    Some apparent DNA verification for me for one or two of those lines also. (But not certain.)
    Saetro's suggestion from October is a good one - the Visitations of Cornwall can be very helpful if you can securely get a link to a branch that's detailed in there. He's correct that some pedigrees are dodgy, so if Spruithean jumps into them there's a lot of independent verification he'll need to do. That said, they can provide us with some excellent starting points. I have one branch (most recently Bonython, but branching back via Trevanion and others) for which the Visitations have been excellent resources. The Visitations are no help whatsoever for my other Cornish branches, on the other hand, as they weren't the right 'sort' to end up in these pedigrees! Also, don't forget to use the Visitations of Devon as well: as a lot of the gentry/aristocratic families of Cornwall intermarried with equivalent families in Devon, the two sets of Visitation documents are good to compare and contrast to see whether the pedigrees overlap accurately or not.

    Cornwall was subject to three Heraldic Visitations by the College of Arms - 1530, 1573 and 1620. These are easily accessible in two forms: Vivian's edited (and much added-to) 1887 edition (which is the one Saetro has linked to here), and also the 1620 edition which was edited by Vivian and Drake and published in 1874 (https://archive.org/details/visitati...e/n12/mode/2up).

    The difference between the two is that Vivian added a lot of his own research to the 1887 publication, bringing some pedigrees up to the Victorian period and projecting them back into the Middle Ages. Information drawn directly from the 1620 Visitation is presented in italics, whilst Vivian's own research is presented in plain text. Given the limitations of the records at his disposal, Vivian's projections forward and backward contain numerous errors and best guesses. I don't want to knock Vivian too much though: the quantity of research is prodigious and the fact he gets so much right is impressive given the archival limitations he would have been dealing with. The 1874 publication, on the other hand, is effectively a much more sparse transcript of the 1620 College of Arms documents with some footnotes. As the College of Arms documents are the product of direct consultation with the families in question back in 1620, the 1874 publication is a super valuable source for answering questions about the early 17th Century. It's essential to remember that the families in question might not always have been 100% accurate or honest themselves, but as evidence of what the families told the heralds, the 1620 records presented in the 1874 publication is vital (it's helped me clarify two contentious issues dating to the 1620s/1620s so far). One day I'd love to see the original manuscripts...

    Long story short, the reasons for errors in these documents are:

    - 1874 Edition: inaccurate information provided to the original Heralds (family propaganda, faulty or competing family records, faulty memories); potentially transcription errors by Vivian and Drake (not sure if anyone's studied the extent of such errors). Sometimes different branches of the same family presented pedigrees with different people and relationships.

    - 1887 Edition: all of the above, plus gaps in Vivian's sources and incorrect conclusions made by Vivian. The main errors made by Vivian tend to occur when he's projecting the 1620 pedigrees forwards or backwards and trying to link up branches found in the 1620 survey with more recent family branches or older branches found in other archival sources. The gaps in his records meant that he sometimes makes 'best guesses' that turn out to be the wrong conclusions.

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  7. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Any people of Cornish or Breton descent got the new Ancestry update? My Welsh update is excellent and I'd be interested to see how well the new Genetic Communities reflect your known ancestry.
    I'm not on AncestryDNA (yet) but my uncle gets two pretty detailed Cornish genetic communities in AncestryDNA. Based on paper-trails, these capture approximately 2/3 of our Cornish branches pretty accurately. Probably should've got my Nanna to test with Ancestry at the same time as LivingDNA to try and boost the resolution on her side. Ah well, we'll wait for the next time Ancestry's discounted tests are on offer

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  9. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I can't really comment on the AncestryDNA update for those of Cornish or Breton descent, however thanks to autosomal DNA I'm actually making progress on my Cornish part of the tree, looks like they came from the Lizard Peninsula. Thankfully this part of my tree is relatively recent and not as diluted as other parts of my tree.
    Based on my extensive and highly scientific research, the best bacon sandwiches in the world can be found in Lizard...

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  11. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Any people of Cornish or Breton descent got the new Ancestry update? My Welsh update is excellent and I'd be interested to see how well the new Genetic Communities reflect your known ancestry.
    Ancestry gave me 51% Scottish and Irish and 49% English,Wales, and Northwestern Europe (Primarily located in England).

  12. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunobelinus_T View Post
    Based on my extensive and highly scientific research, the best bacon sandwiches in the world can be found in Lizard...
    Well then. I know where I have to go!

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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Well then. I know where I have to go!
    Definitely! The ice cream's not bad either!

    (On a serious note, some of my lot are from down Lizard way as well, which we know from paper-trail and can broadly confirm from my uncle's AncestryDNA, which picks up Kerrier and West Cornwall & Scilly... a nice, very specific convergence between the two strands of evidence!)

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