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Thread: Oceanian <1%???

  1. #1
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    Question Oceanian <1%???

    Everything else on my FTDNA "myOrigins" results looked about right, more or less:
    West and Central Europe
    51%

    British Isles
    47%

    Trace Results:

    Finland
    < 2%

    Oceania
    < 1%

    _________________________________

    My FTDNA ancientOrigins results show 0% non-European.

    Because I and my parents were born in Australia I can't dismiss the Oceania immediately as just background noise. (If it brought up a percentage like that of African or Native American I would dismiss it as I don't live near those places, and nor have my known forebears.)

    I'm curious how much less than 1% it is, but I think FTDNA doesn't use decimal points with its percentages, so <1% is lowest possible above 0%.

    Should I be searching for an Oceanian (presumably, Aboriginal?) ancestor? Is it possible that FTDNA assigned me that trace as they did not know how to interpret something and just noticed I was from Australia? Could the sample of "Oceanians" be infiltrated by some British Isles ancestry?

    I have no known Oceanian ancestry, nor family legends about it. A couple of my lines have been in Australia a long time, but I'm not sure precisely how long.

    I'm not even completely sure how you can have a <1% result. Assuming they used 46 chromosomes (I think actually they used less as it excludes Y chromosome I believe), a single chromosome from a forebear would equate to no less than 2.17%. I suppose genetic recombination could allow a chromosome to partially be Oceanian and partially not, though.
    Last edited by Gentleman; 06-24-2017 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman View Post
    Everything else on my FTDNA "myOrigins" results looked about right, more or less:
    West and Central Europe
    51%

    British Isles
    47%

    Trace Results:

    Finland
    < 2%

    Oceania
    < 1%

    _________________________________

    My FTDNA ancientOrigins results show 0% non-European.

    Because I and my parents were born in Australia I can't dismiss the Oceania immediately as just background noise. (If it brought up a percentage like that of African or Native American I would dismiss it as I don't live near those places, and nor have my known forebears.)

    I'm curious how much less than 1% it is, but I think FTDNA doesn't use decimal points with its percentages, so <1% is lowest possible above 0%.

    Should I be searching for an Oceanian (presumably, Aboriginal?) ancestor? Is it possible that FTDNA assigned me that trace as they did not know how to interpret something and just noticed I was from Australia? Could the sample of "Oceanians" be infiltrated by some British Isles ancestry?

    I have no known Oceanian ancestry, nor family legends about it. A couple of my lines have been in Australia a long time, but I'm not sure precisely how long.

    I'm not even completely sure how you can have a <1% result. Assuming they used 46 chromosomes (I think actually they used less as it excludes Y chromosome I believe), a single chromosome from a forebear would equate to no less than 2.17%. I suppose genetic recombination could allow a chromosome to partially be Oceanian and partially not, though.
    Welcome to the forum!

    Do you score any Oceanian and/or Papuan on any of the calculators on GEDMatch?
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


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  4. #3
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    Thanks for the welcome! I just went on GEDmatch tonight - first time. All of those calculators seem very different! It's a bit confusing. Many conflicting results. Yes, I score Oceanian, always very low. However I also score a lot of other trace things on there that FTDNA leaves out. Is there any calculator in particular you'd suggest I should regard as more authoritative?

    I'll only paste one, for amusement. "puntDNAL K13 Global" says I have something from every global region except Siberia!


    Population
    West_Asia 9.49
    NE_Europe 51.03
    Americas 0.12
    Siberia -
    Oceania 0.79
    South_Asia 0.69
    NE_Asia 0.90
    East_Africa 0.43
    SE_Asia 0.69
    SW_Europe 33.54
    SW_Asia 0.95
    West_Africa 0.67
    South_Africa 0.70

    Strange, I always knew I was a "Euromutt". I'm coming to understand what I've read others say - that the small trace elements are not always meaningful. Eg, I am apparently more North East Asian than Oceanian on that calculator. Why didn't FTDNA mention that? I guess the type of trace admixture it mentions in that puntDNAL K13 Global table is likely from a long time ago. (Assuming it's not simply "noise".) Two of my grandparents were born in Europe - the other two I met and they simply were not that "exotic" looking.
    Last edited by Gentleman; 06-25-2017 at 12:06 PM.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman View Post
    Thanks for the welcome! I just went on GEDmatch tonight - first time. All of those calculators seem very different! It's a bit confusing. Many conflicting results. Yes, I score Oceanian, always very low. However I also score a lot of other trace things on there that FTDNA leaves out. Is there any calculator in particular you'd suggest I should regard as more authoritative?

    I'll only paste one, for amusement. "puntDNAL K13 Global" says I have something from every global region except Siberia!


    Population
    West_Asia 9.49
    NE_Europe 51.03
    Americas 0.12
    Siberia -
    Oceania 0.79
    South_Asia 0.69
    NE_Asia 0.90
    East_Africa 0.43
    SE_Asia 0.69
    SW_Europe 33.54
    SW_Asia 0.95
    West_Africa 0.67
    South_Africa 0.70

    Strange, I always knew I was a "Euromutt". I'm coming to understand what I've read others say - that the small trace elements are not always meaningful. Eg, I am apparently more North East Asian than Oceanian on that calculator. Why didn't FTDNA mention that? I guess the type of trace admixture it mentions in that puntDNAL K13 Global table is likely from a long time ago. (Assuming it's not simply "noise".) Two of my grandparents were born in Europe - the other two I met and they simply were not that "exotic" looking.
    Anything less than 1% could very likely be statistical noise. I score 1.8% oceanian at DNA.land and 1.7 central Asian at myheritage ( which is probably the same thing they just lack the oceanian sample). Anyone with Oceanian plus British isles ancestry probably got it from the British empire days via Australia or New Zealand etc.. or in your case you have Australian ancestry which is more direct. PuntDNAL k13 global has it at 1.32 so it probably isn't noise in my case. I suggest you try dna.land to sort this out.
    Last edited by NewAlbion; 06-25-2017 at 03:37 PM.
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  6. #5
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    Thanks, NewAlbion. The big disclosure thing at the sign-up for DNA.Land made me nervous at this point and I didn't upload

    HOWEVER, I learnt something interesting about the Oceanian category in PuntDNAL k13 global. The Population Spreadsheet for puntDNAL K13 Global gives the breakdown of different ethnicities' averages. "Oceanian" is actually far from exclusive to Australasia and surrounds. It's at a low level in Indian-type populations, among others. It states average 1% average for Romani. The relevance of that is that there actually is a family legend about a "real gypsy" looking woman, but that was in England. We had dismissed it as I believe that was on my great grandmother's side and she herself was I think a strawberry blonde.

    Furthermore, I'm a quarter Czech and historically Central Europe had a fair few Roma.

    There are various groups near outskirts of Europe who register some "Oceanian" - eg, Tadjiks (average 1%), Afghan Pashtun (0.5%), Balochi (0.5%), Turkish Kayseri (0.5%). Not to mention many Indians and various Asian groupings with much higher elements.

    I think the term "Oceanian" can mislead - there was such DNA in Europe long before Captain Cook found Australia. In relation to myself, I think IF it's not background noise its more likely to be Roma type contribution. My two grandparents who were born in Australia are pretty much that paper white, with no unusual features. The short length of white settlement in Australia is such that even very white-looking Aborigines ordinarily have living family who clearly look mixed. Things like Papuan would make even less sense to me. (I am darker than paper white from my Czech side.)
    Last edited by Gentleman; 06-26-2017 at 12:18 PM.

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    The below is highly amusing - on MDLP K16 Modern Admixture Proportions calculator I score 0.20% for Australian. See how much more "Australian" the average Norwegian, eg, is than me at 0.34%. (I just sorted in descending order those with any "Australian".)

    Population Australian
    Papuan 86.29
    Koinanbe 73.17
    Kosipe 69.63
    Australian 42.33
    Bajo 9.92
    Onge 9.88
    Batak 8.3
    Aeta 7.88
    Melanesian 7
    Great_Andamanese 6.33
    Mawasi 6.03
    Juang 5.69
    Gadaba 5.32
    Bhunjia 5.22
    Paniya 5.21
    Kharia 5.02
    Ho 4.97
    Asur 4.78
    Dhurwa 4.73
    Bonda 4.71
    Munda 4.61
    Orissa 4.51
    Malayan 4.4
    Sahariya 4.4
    Pulliyar 4.27
    Sakilli 4.22
    Vysya 4.19
    Nihali 4.17
    Santhal 4.17
    Gond 4.13
    Kapu 4.13
    Brahmin 4.07
    Kurumba 3.94
    Hakkipikki 3.93
    Bhil 3.87
    Gupta 3.69
    Madiga 3.64
    North_Kannadi 3.61
    Kol 3.57
    Chenchu 3.55
    Satnami 3.53
    Chamar 3.47
    Savara 3.47
    Srivastava 3.45
    Scheduled_Caste 3.4
    Kamsali 3.35
    Marwadi 3.35
    Khasi 3.28
    Hallaki 3.25
    Lebbo 3.24
    Balija 3.21
    Lodi 3.17
    Piramalai_Kallars 3.09
    Dhaka 3.04
    Dusadh 3.03
    Scheduled_Caste 3
    Thakur 2.93
    Punjabi 2.82
    Vizayan 2.79
    Velama 2.71
    Kusunda 2.69
    Bengali 2.63
    Lambadi 2.6
    Dharkar 2.58
    Naidu 2.5
    Tharu 2.36
    Muslim 2.35
    Tamang 2.32
    Kanjars 2.24
    Meghawal 2.16
    Burmese 2.05
    Vaish 2.02
    Jew 1.99
    Kshatriya 1.93
    GujaratiD 1.92
    Naga 1.86
    Brahmin 1.84
    Cambodian 1.82
    Lahu 1.82
    Garo 1.77
    Mizo 1.77
    Punjabi 1.75
    Kashmiri_Pandit 1.73
    Kuki 1.73
    Aonaga 1.71
    Jatt 1.69
    Brahmin 1.62
    Brahmin 1.59
    GujaratiC 1.59
    Kurmi 1.53
    Jatt 1.43
    Naxi 1.41
    Thai 1.39
    Ukrainians_north 1.32
    Jew 1.28
    Yi 1.27
    Uygur 1.26
    Kazakh 1.21
    Luzon 1.19
    Vietnamese 1.14
    GujaratiB 1.08
    Meena 0.98
    Forest_Yukaghir 0.97
    Nyishi 0.95
    Sindhi 0.95
    Burusho 0.87
    Roma 0.87
    Belarusian 0.85
    Gujjar 0.82
    Assyrian 0.81
    Hezhen 0.81
    Tu 0.8
    Eskimo_Sireniki 0.77
    GujaratiA 0.77
    Siddi 0.77
    Yakut 0.75
    Karakalpak 0.74
    Pashtun 0.73
    Jew 0.71
    Georgian 0.71
    Kazakh 0.7
    Kumyk 0.7
    Bashkir 0.69
    Pole 0.69
    Arab_Israel 0.68
    Latvian_Dobele 0.68
    Pathan 0.68
    Azerbaijani_Dagestan 0.67
    Croat 0.67
    Vietnamese 0.67
    Bolivian 0.66
    Jew 0.66
    Kyrgyz 0.65
    Algerian 0.64
    Azerbaijani 0.64
    Ethiopian 0.64
    Pashtun 0.64
    Tajik 0.64
    Turk 0.64
    Latvian 0.63
    Druze 0.61
    German_Lipsian 0.6
    Brahmin 0.59
    Jew 0.58
    Egyptian 0.58
    Uygur 0.58
    Vietnamese 0.58
    Yemeni 0.58
    Kinh 0.57
    Assyrian 0.56
    Iranian 0.56
    Japanese 0.56
    Lebanese 0.56
    Quechua 0.56
    Avar 0.55
    Eskimo 0.55
    Mayan 0.55
    Russians-West 0.54
    Surui 0.54
    Jew 0.53
    Kazakh 0.53
    Tundra_Yukaghir 0.53
    Colla 0.52
    Armenian 0.51
    Armenian 0.51
    Georgian 0.51
    Iranian 0.51
    Italian 0.51
    Kumyk 0.51
    Russian 0.51
    Yaghnobi 0.51
    Dutch 0.5
    Greek 0.5
    Scottish 0.5
    Turk 0.5
    Finn 0.49
    Hungarian 0.49
    Iranian 0.49
    Vepsa 0.49
    Berber 0.48
    Cachi 0.48
    Egyptian 0.48
    Irish 0.48
    Ava 0.47
    BedouinA 0.47
    Romanian 0.47
    Spanish 0.47
    Jew 0.46
    Hazara 0.46
    Palestinian 0.46
    Tujia 0.46
    Georgian 0.45
    Tabasaran 0.45
    Altaian 0.44
    Bulgarian 0.44
    Dargin 0.44
    Dai 0.43
    Irish 0.43
    Jew 0.42
    Irish 0.42
    Lebanese_Christian 0.42
    Mongolian 0.42
    Moroccan 0.42
    Wichi 0.42
    Daur 0.41
    Eskimo 0.41
    Khomani 0.41
    Russian 0.41
    Saami 0.41
    Samaritan 0.41
    Turk 0.41
    Abhkasian 0.4
    Bantu 0.4
    Ju_hoan_North 0.4
    Xibo 0.4
    Armenian 0.39
    Greenlander 0.39
    Ishkasim 0.39
    Romanian 0.39
    Turk 0.39
    Armenian 0.38
    Armenian 0.38
    Athabask 0.38
    English 0.38
    Gambian 0.38
    Ket 0.38
    Serbian 0.38
    Biaka 0.37
    Kurd 0.37
    She 0.37
    Slovak 0.37
    Spanish 0.37
    Turk 0.37
    Maltese 0.36
    Saami_WGA 0.36
    Adygei 0.35
    Afa 0.35
    Georgian 0.35
    Hakas 0.35
    Hazara 0.35
    Iranian 0.35
    Iran_Lor 0.35
    Mongol 0.35
    Nivkh 0.35
    Oroqen 0.35
    Somali 0.35
    Jew 0.35
    Uzbek 0.35
    Armenian 0.34
    Filipino 0.34
    French 0.34
    Greek 0.34
    Mandenka 0.34
    Norwegian 0.34
    Saudi 0.34
    Spanish 0.34
    Dusun 0.33
    French 0.33
    Italian 0.33
    Libyan 0.33
    Saharawi 0.33
    Jew 0.33
    Welsh 0.33
    Basque 0.32
    Egyptian 0.32
    French 0.32
    Gagauz 0.32
    Jew 0.32
    Tajiks 0.32
    Zapotec 0.32
    Adjar 0.31
    Jew 0.31
    Zoroastrian 0.31
    Jew 0.31
    Kalmyk 0.31
    Tunisian 0.31
    Yukaghir 0.31
    Buryat 0.3
    Chechen 0.3
    Greek 0.3
    Mixtec 0.3
    Romanian 0.3
    Scottish 0.3
    Swiss 0.3
    Turk 0.3
    Greenlander 0.3
    Armenian 0.29
    Estonian 0.29
    Hadza 0.29
    Kyrgyz 0.29
    Macedonian 0.29
    Moldavian 0.29
    Russian 0.29
    Turkmen 0.29
    Albanian 0.28
    Jew 0.28
    Balkar 0.28
    Brahui 0.28
    English 0.28
    Finn 0.28
    Finn 0.28
    Jew 0.28
    Georgians 0.28
    Iran_Mazandrani 0.28
    Mozabite 0.28
    Pole 0.28
    Russian 0.28
    Serbian 0.28
    Spanish 0.28
    Armenian 0.27
    Armenian 0.27
    Czech 0.27
    Georgian 0.27
    Han 0.27
    Jew 0.27
    Italian 0.27
    Mongola 0.27
    Turk 0.27
    Azeri 0.26
    Bashkir 0.26
    German 0.26
    Greek 0.26
    Syrian 0.26
    Lipka_Tatar 0.26
    Austrian 0.25
    Georgian 0.25
    Han 0.25
    Italian 0.25
    Lebanese_Muslim 0.25
    Makrani 0.25
    Russian 0.25
    Jew 0.25
    Spanish 0.25
    Ulchi 0.25
    Afroamerican 0.24
    Esan 0.24
    Pima 0.24
    Yoruba 0.24
    Chuvash 0.23
    Corsican 0.23
    Hungarian 0.23
    Korean 0.23
    Jew 0.23
    Nogai 0.23
    Spanish 0.23
    Spanish 0.23
    Arab_Israel 0.22
    Assyrian 0.22
    Jew 0.22
    Cossack 0.22
    French 0.22
    Irish 0.22
    Luo 0.22
    Tajik 0.22
    Cypriot 0.21
    Finn 0.21
    German 0.21
    Itelmen 0.21
    Turkmens 0.21
    Assyrian 0.2
    Bolivian 0.2
    Bulgarian 0.2
    Mansi 0.2
    Mende 0.2
    Miao 0.2
    Jew 0.2
    Sardinian 0.2
    Spanish 0.2
    Tubalar 0.2
    Even 0.19
    Orcadian 0.19
    Shetlandic 0.19
    Spanish 0.19
    Mari 0.18
    Scottish 0.18
    Azerbaijani_Agdzhabedi 0.17
    Eskimo 0.17
    German 0.17
    Greek 0.17
    Irish 0.17
    Italian 0.17
    Lak 0.17
    Maasai 0.17
    Avar 0.16
    Balochi 0.16
    Piapoco 0.16
    Jew 0.16
    Bosnian 0.15
    Jordanian 0.15
    Kyrgyz 0.15
    Ukrainian 0.15
    Armenian 0.14
    Bashkir 0.14
    Belarusian_East 0.14
    Circassian 0.14
    Congo 0.14
    Jew 0.14
    Luhya 0.14
    Ossetian 0.14
    Pole 0.14
    Slovenian 0.14
    Sorb 0.14
    Uzbek 0.14
    Bantu 0.13
    Bantu 0.13
    BedouinB 0.13
    Lithuanian 0.13
    Mbuti 0.13
    Sicilian 0.13
    Spanish 0.13
    Basque 0.12
    Chukchi 0.12
    Kikuyu 0.12
    Russian 0.12
    Sakha 0.12
    Spanish 0.12
    Finn 0.11
    Irish 0.11
    Kalash 0.11
    Koryak 0.11
    Armenian 0.1
    Armenian 0.1
    Belarusian 0.1
    Croat 0.1
    Italian 0.1
    Karelian 0.1
    Jew 0.1
    Dane 0.09
    Evenk 0.09
    Greek 0.09
    Shor 0.09
    Spanish 0.09
    Bantu 0.08
    Erzya_Moksha 0.08
    Icelandic 0.08
    Nenets 0.08
    Swede 0.08
    Tajik 0.08
    Ukrainians_west 0.08
    Armenian 0.07
    French 0.07
    Portuguese 0.07
    Bolivian 0.06
    Datog 0.06
    Murut 0.05
    Russian_cossack 0.05
    Scottish 0.05
    Selkup 0.05
    Udmurd 0.05
    Jew 0.05
    Azerbaijani_Khachmaz 0.04
    Kosovar 0.04
    Montenegrian 0.04
    Scottish 0.04
    Kryashen 0.03
    Mixe 0.03
    Spanish 0.03
    Ukrainians_east 0.03
    Ami 0.02
    Atajal 0.02
    Russian 0.02
    Kabardin 0.01
    Komi 0.01
    Provencal 0.01
    Spanish 0.01

  8. #7
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    Do you get any Oceanian in Eurogenes K36 as well?

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    Here is an example of Ecuadorian person with some Oceanian ancestry (probably due to contacts between Polynesians from Easter Island and Andean populations?). Every single DNA test "caught" Oceanian admixture, but in different amounts:

    23andMe* ---------- 0.1% Oceanian
    AncestryDNA ------- 1% Oceanian
    FTDNA -------------- 2% Oceanian
    DNA.Land ---------- 1.5% Oceanian
    WeGene ------------ 1.41% Oceanian
    DNA Tribes --------- 1.2% Oceanian
    MyHeritage --------- 0.9% Oceanian
    Eurogenes K36 ---- 1.88% Oceanian

    *23andMe tends to underestimate the amount of minor components.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-29-2017 at 10:48 PM.

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman View Post
    Because I and my parents were born in Australia I can't dismiss the Oceania immediately as just background noise.
    Indeed. I have seen many results of South African Boers / Afrikaners (both results from GEDmatch calculators and results from commercial tests), and literally all of them (or nearly all) score some minor Sub-Saharan admixtures. This is mostly from the 1600s and the 1700s, when they absorbed some local South African as well as imported (slaves from West Africa) Sub-Saharan blood. I can imagine that colonial White Australian ancestry also includes some Aboriginal blood.

    Do you have colonial Australian ancestry?

    ===========================

    South African Boer in DNA.Land, with 2.4% of Sub-Saharan:



    Boers also tend to have some Asian ancestry:

    http://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/7562.html

    http://rcin.org.pl/Content/29182/WA5...a-Kowalski.pdf

    Excerpt:

    "In seeking to build the foundations of its rule in
    South Africa, the Dutch East India Company took
    on people from various different countries. One
    indication of this is provided by the established
    origins of today’s Afrikaaners. Calculations by
    Heese (1971) suggest that 36.8% of these people’s
    ancestors derived from The Netherlands, 35.7%
    from Germany, 14.4% from France, 2.7% from the
    British Isles, 2.9% from other European countries
    (Poland included) and 7.5% from countries outside
    Europe. In turn, work on the origin of the ancestors
    of contemporary Afrikaaner Jaco M. Greeff
    would seem to suggest that Heese exaggerated
    the role played by immigrants of German origin,
    at the expense of the French. The largest group
    of Greeff ancestors – accounting for a 37.5%
    share very close to that given by Heese – came
    from The Netherlands, while Germans and French
    accounted for similar (respectively 27.4 and 26.4%)
    shares. 1.9% of the ancestors were from the British
    Isles, while other European countries (mainly Denmark,
    Norway and Portugal) accounted for 0.8%.
    The non-European ancestors (mainly from India)
    accounted for as much as 6.1% of the total."
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-29-2017 at 11:24 PM.

  12. #10
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    Here is what a 100% Aboriginal Australian scores in Eurogenes K36:

    Oceanian 74.17
    South_Asian 11.13
    Malayan 6.06
    Siberian 3.05
    Omotic 1.80
    East_Central_Asian 1.78
    Pygmy 1.72
    East_Asian 0.28

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