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Thread: R1b-KMS75, Z2103+ Yamnaya culture

  1. #1
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    R1b-KMS75, Z2103+ Yamnaya culture

    The descendants of the Yamnaya culture's population - Bashkirs from the Buryjan and Singran clans, R1b-KMS75 subclade

    the modern phenotypes of some Bashkirian Buryjans and Singrans practically identically repeat the phenotypes of ancient representatives of Yamnaya culture, that is, many anthropological features characteristic of their distant ancestors-Yamnaya population have been preserved in many Buryjans and Singrans. Below are the phenotypes of R1b-KMS75, both ancient (Yamnaya) and modern (Bashkirs). Phenotypes of Bashkirs R1b-KMS75 strongly resemble phenotypes of men from Yamnaya culture.



    As you can see, in addition to the genetic evidence of the Bashkirs and their ancestors belonging to the KMS75 subclade, we also have anthropological evidence of the origin of the Bashkirian Buryjan and Singran from the population of the Yamnaya archaeological culture.



    Look at here

    http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=4_17062017_7_3
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    Bottom left is probably closest to the original face, or possibly the third on the bottom since there is CHG mixture in Yamnaya. It's clear there was no East Asian admixture at the time of Yamnaya.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 06-26-2017 at 06:03 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Bottom left is probably closest to the original face, or possibly the third on the bottom since there is CHG mixture in Yamnaya. It's clear there was no East Asian admixture at the time of Yamnaya.
    As you know some forum members are not impartial to red hair.

    If someone missed, the earlier Yamnaya aDNA samples have been confirmed KMS75+, a purely Bashkir line.

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    Good evening to all!
    *
    The tradition from Yamnaya culture to Buryjans was practically interrupted - and we are dealing with bottle-neck of the Buryjans. By the way, according to the Bashkir epic "Kusek-bi" there was a battle of the Buryans with the Kipchaks, where the Kipchaks won - it was 1000 years ago, to be precise in Chinese chronicles, this event occurred in 1056 AD. According to the epos "Kusek-bi", the Buryjans were practically destroyed. As you can see, the calculation of the common ancestor (TMRCA) of the Bashkirian Buryjans coincided with the data of ancient Chinese chronicles!
    *
    Subclade R1b-KMS75 has been detected so far only in Bashkirs, and from the paleo-DNA data - only in the Yamnaya culture. No others.
    *
    But. I expect that the same line can be found among Digor Ossetians of R1b-Z2103 clade, because The ancestors of the Digors together with the ancestors of the Bashkir Buryjans were Massagetaes-Burdzhans and later, entered as the distinct clans in the Sarmatian tribal union.
    Last edited by Bulat; 06-26-2017 at 09:03 PM.
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    As a sidebar to this discussion, I want to mention that my wife, who is Russian, ran into some Bashkirs here in Virginia a couple of days ago. She struck up a conversation with an old lady Bashkir. Apparently nearly the whole family is here in Virginia now, 30 people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    The descendants of the Yamnaya culture's population - Bashkirs from the Buryjan and Singran clans, R1b-KMS75 subclade

    the modern phenotypes of some Bashkirian Buryjans and Singrans practically identically repeat the phenotypes of ancient representatives of Yamnaya culture, that is, many anthropological features characteristic of their distant ancestors-Yamnaya population have been preserved in many Buryjans and Singrans. Below are the phenotypes of R1b-KMS75, both ancient (Yamnaya) and modern (Bashkirs). Phenotypes of Bashkirs R1b-KMS75 strongly resemble phenotypes of men from Yamnaya culture.



    As you can see, in addition to the genetic evidence of the Bashkirs and their ancestors belonging to the KMS75 subclade, we also have anthropological evidence of the origin of the Bashkirian Buryjan and Singran from the population of the Yamnaya archaeological culture.



    Look at here

    http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=4_17062017_7_3
    BTW, I've seen plenty of southern Redneck, Scots-Irish guys who look about like those guys. Put some camo, Mossy Oak baseball caps on them and they would fit right in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Bottom left is probably closest to the original face, or possibly the third on the bottom since there is CHG mixture in Yamnaya. It's clear there was no East Asian admixture at the time of Yamnaya.
    They had dark features. This guy is way too light for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    They had dark features. This guy is way too light for them.
    From our Yamnaya samples you are correct and that seems to be the case, but it seems a subset of the mesolithic European hunter gatherers were the originators of light skin and hair. There is no reason to assume that R1b-KMS75 within the mesolithic context were dark skinned prior to meeting the CHG people in the northern Caucasus. How much CHG does the typical Bashkir have? If they are predominantly EHG with some recent East Asian admixture, then they were probably light skinned.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    BTW, I've seen plenty of southern Redneck, Scots-Irish guys who look about like those guys. Put some camo, Mossy Oak baseball caps on them and they would fit right in.
    All these men are a mix of Western and Eastern Eurasians,
    Their phenotype is not Yamnaya

    Look at their Basal results

    Ancient_North_Eurasian Basal-rich East_Eurasian Oceanian Southeast_Asian Sub-Saharan Villabruna-related

    Bashkir:average 29.12 13.8933333 28.2033333 0.36 0.8433333 0 27.58
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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    SNP KMS75 is also found at the one arab and one man from Caucas(Dagestan, Russian Federation).

    So R1b-KMS75, found now:

    1) Bashkirs

    2) On the R1b Basal Subclades project - in the R-KMS75 category there is an Iraqi Arab from the Bedouin Eneza tribe (kit 83705 FTDNA) - YF05663.

    3) And also with KMS75 are the man from Dagestan (kit ERR1347675).



    About Digors:

    For a compact group of Digors, there is Kubatiev's data (kit 159888 FTDNA). Its terminal snp is Y5587 that goes along the chain Z2106> Z2109> Z2110> CTS7556> Y5692.> CTS9219> Y18959> Y5587. This means that the paths a this compact group of Digors and Bashkirian Buryjans groups were dispersed even in the days of the Yamnaya culture, or even earlier.

    Y5587 sublade have Bulgarians, Romanians, Italians and Poles. There is also one Russian from the Kursk region and one Spaniard. Along with other lines of the CTS9219 sublayer, it makes the main contribution to the R1b-Z2103 clade in the southeast of Europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Northern Italy, the North Caucasus - up to 5% of the total population).
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