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Thread: Big difference in siblings

  1. #1
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    Big difference in siblings

    AncestryDNA found me to be 54% Great Britain
    43% Euro West
    2% Scandinavia
    1% Ireland

    My brother's results were 66% Euro West
    30% Ireland
    4% Trace regions

    I realize siblings DNA often differs but this seems excessively so. Any thoughts?

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  3. #2
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    If you're full siblings, I think that is a bit excessive. I might be able to believe the amount of variation in Euro West, but 1% versus 30% for Ireland? 54% Great Britain for you, and I presume none for your brother?

    There can be significant variation, since you probably only share about 50% of your DNA. But, what are the odds that your brother's 30% Ireland or your 54% Great Britain would all be limited to regions you don't share?

    EDIT: This is one of the ways in which 23andMe's analysis is superior to either Ancestry's or FTDNAs. It isn't just a matter of being more accurate -- though I believe that in most respects it is -- but it's also because Ancestry Composition actually shows the segments believed to belong to given ancestries. This makes comparisons among family members much more useful.

    For example, I can see where my father's various ancestries are supposed to be located. So I know what actually makes sense in terms of what my siblings and I inherited, or that I passed on to my daughter from my father -- and what doesn't make so much sense.

    To give one example, my siblings and I have all have tiny amount of Native American ancestry. We have documentation of such ancestry, and it also shows up in our DNA. It's found in the form of 6-8 segments for each of us, totaling around 2.0%. The segments aren't exactly the same for all of us, but with six of us they do over overlap.

    Since my father and daughter have also tested, it's clear that my siblings and I inherited all of these segments from our mother. In addition, it's possible to tell from which of her parents -- in most cases -- the segments came. (Our mother has a small amount of Native American ancestry on both sides.)

    What's cool is that I can also make comparisons to a few cousins who inherited segments in some of the same locations, to see whether their segments are also identified as Native American. (The answer, generally, is yes.)
    Last edited by geebee; 06-28-2017 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Additional comments
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  5. #3
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    Thanks geebee, I think I may have to do 23 and me for more info.

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  7. #4
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    I think it seems within the realm of normal, it's just you've each inherited a different 50% from each of your parents. I've tested both my parents, my sister, and myself and it seems like she inherited more of the British/Irish elements, while I received more of the German/French ones:

    Dad
    Eugene.PNG

    Mom
    Maureen.PNG

    Sister
    Kristy1.PNG

    Myself
    JordyDNA.PNG
    AncestryDNA Genetic Communities
    Father: Canadian Maritimes Acadian, Newfoundland & Southeastern Labrador Settlers, Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Island Settlers, New England Settlers, New York Settlers, Southwestern Quebec French Settlers, Southwestern Quebec & New York & Vermont French Settlers
    Mother: Southern Ontario Settlers, New York Settlers, Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Island Settlers
    AncestryDNA: England & Northwestern Europe: 49%, Scotland: 39%, Ireland 8%, Germanic Europe 4%

  8. #5
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    Thanks jujira, I see the differences but my 30 to 1 still seems excessively different.

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  10. #6
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    also

    One more detail. The only known ancestor from Ireland is my GG Grandfather who immigrated to the US in 1849. He was from County Tyrone in Northern Ireland and was Protestant which means he most likely was descendant of the colonizers from England, Wales or Scotland in the 16th and 17th centuries.
    Of course there is the possibility of intermarriage between Native Irish and transplanted British.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikegp View Post
    Thanks jujira, I see the differences but my 30 to 1 still seems excessively different.
    How about 47% to ZERO http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post253181

    Also check out how different my Evil Twin is (Gedmatch looks at your parents and extrapolates someone who got the other 50% of each of your parents' DNA):

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post246726

    Me:
    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 27.76
    2 North_Atlantic 26.53
    3 West_Med 14.38
    4 West_Asian 14.16
    5 Baltic 7.97
    6 Red_Sea 6.24
    7 South_Asian 1.02
    8 East_Asian 0.9
    9 Northeast_African 0.85
    10 Oceanian 0.2

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Italian_Abruzzo 6.87
    2 West_Sicilian 9.49
    3 Tuscan 10.47
    4 East_Sicilian 10.98
    5 Central_Greek 11.04
    6 Greek_Thessaly 11.95
    7 South_Italian 12.19
    8 Ashkenazi 12.6
    9 Sephardic_Jewish 14.6
    10 North_Italian 15.41

    Evil Twin:
    1 North_Atlantic 48.36
    2 Baltic 27.41
    3 West_Med 17
    4 West_Asian 2.43
    5 East_Med 1.99
    6 Amerindian 0.77
    7 East_Asian 0.64
    8 Northeast_African 0.62
    9 Sub-Saharan 0.62
    10 Siberian 0.17

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Orcadian 6.04
    2 Southeast_English 6.1
    3 Southwest_English 6.56
    4 North_Dutch 6.72
    5 Danish 7.17
    6 Irish 7.19
    7 Norwegian 7.55
    8 West_Scottish 7.66
    9 North_German 7.8
    10 Swedish 8.24

    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  13. #8
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    So which one do you believe is accurate? If any.

  14. #9
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    One problem with Evil Twin phasing is that it really doesn't completely work unless both parents have been tested.

    You can use it with just one parent and child, but there's no way to actually know what the unherited SNPs are of the untested parent.

    Plus, you can't always be sure which SNP you inherited from which parent at any given location, if the SNPs are not homozygous for the parent or the child at that location. So if I have AC and my father has AC, either my A or my C could have come from my father. But if he has AA or I have AA, then I know I inherited an A from him.

    This also means that if both of the parents plus the child are heterozygous, then you still can't know from which parent the child inherited which SNP.

    Bottom line is, if you only have one tested parent, the Evil Twin tool at GEDmatch won't work as well as if both are tested. And if it's just you and your brother, it won't work at all.

    There's another problem with the Evil Twin idea. That is, what are the actual odds of having a sibling who has inherited exactly the opposite DNA from a full sibling? For two siblings who inherit 100% of the same DNA, that's easy: they're identical twins. It happens often enough not to question it.

    But with the Evil Twin idea, you're basically talking about "anti-identical" twins. We know the mechanism behind identical twins; it isn't random chance. What's the mechanism behind "anti-identical" twins?

    This is basically like talking about two series of coin tosses with exactly opposite results. You'd have to have either: every chromosome inherited from each parent has the same crossover points, BUT each child has the segments reversed (in terms of which came from which grandparent); or, you'd have to inherit 23 unrecombined -- and opposite -- chromosomes from each parent. Odds on that? Just a guess, but I'd say "astronomical" would probably be an appropriate term.

    Unless, that is, someone can find a mechanism that is non-random, as with the formation of identical twins, who exist because a single fertilized egg gives rise two completely separate embryos. And remember, the proposed mechanism for anti-identical twins would have to involve both sides.

    I suppose it might be possible to have a Merely Naughty Twin, who was only opposite on one side?

    EDIT: To be fair, for one sibling to inherit 30% of an ancestry while the other inherits only 2% doesn't require exactly opposite inheritance. But, the Evil Twin phasing does. So it's probably not a good example of how different inheritance can be for two siblings in real life.

    What is possible and what is probable, that's the question. It's possible that a full sibling could look like a half sibling in a DNA test. That is, by pure chance they might share DNA from just one parent.

    Or, it's possible for them to share DNA from neither parent -- opposite inheritance. Has it ever happened? Maybe, but if someone claims to have seen it I'm still going to say, interrogate the milk man.
    Last edited by geebee; 06-30-2017 at 11:06 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    One problem with Evil Twin phasing is that it really doesn't completely work unless both parents have been tested.

    You can use it with just one parent and child, but there's no way to actually know what the unherited SNPs are of the untested parent.

    [snip]

    Or, it's possible for them to share DNA from neither parent -- opposite inheritance. Has it ever happened? Maybe, but if someone claims to have seen it I'm still going to say, interrogate the milk man.
    Speaking for myself, both parents are tested, and not only are they matches for Y and mtDNA, respectively, FTDNA's FF is confident they're my parents
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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