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Thread: Portuguese Y-DNA J1-M365 cluster

  1. #11
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    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
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    H1ao1

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    Big Y results from FTDNA#669046, MDKA from Iran, Mazandaran, Caspian Sea. He is going to organize a new branch separating the Portuguese from the English groups.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y19467/
    Of the 35 SNPs from J-Y19467 he is showing
    19 SNPs Positive
    16 SNPs Negative
    Y19467+ Y19468- FGC5988- FGC5990+ FGC5992+ FGC6024+ FGC6025- FGC6026- FGC6032+ FGC6035- FGC6039+ FGC6040+ FGC6041+ FGC6047+ FGC6056- FGC6066+ FGC6075+ FGC6077- FGC6083- FGC6085- FGC6094+ FGC6095- FGC6097+ FGC6107+ FGC6109+ FGC6111- FGC6128+ FGC6132+ FGC6134- FGC6139+ FGC6147+ FGC6157- FGC6166- FGC6168- FGC8031-

    The TMRCA between the Portuguese and the Iranian J1-Y19467 (FGC6035 * FGC6094 * FGC6040+32 SNPs formed 5500 ybp) should be more or less around 3000ybp, more or less around 1000 BC. Let's wait YFull analysis.
    So the movement of the Portuguese J1-M365 was historical and not from the distant Neolithic and perhaps we can find other Iranian J1 branches from this group.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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  3. #12
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    YFull (5.07) has not calculated the TMRCA between the J1 FGC6064+ Y19467+ Iranian (YF11239) and Portuguese branches (YF01554 and YF04781) ! Only in the next version of the tree (5.08). I think the distance is going to be around 2500 ybp, so historical and not 6100 ybp because they still have not calculated the distance !. Y19467 has 26 SNPs (J-Y19467FGC6094 * FGC6040 * FGC6047* FGC6128 * FGC6039 * FGC6132 * FGC6097 * FGC6109 * FGC6107 * FGC5992 * FGC6032 * FGC6157 * Y19467 * FGC6139 * FGC6056 * FGC6025 * FGC6075 * FGC6134 * FGC6077 * FGC6066 * Y19468 * FGC5990 * FGC6166 * FGC6024 * FGC6147 * FGC6041") in common with FGC6035 and YFull has not included the new distance ! Let's remember my Brazilian sample YF01554 has been in Brazil for just 300ybp and the distance with the other available Portuguese sample YF04781 is 1250ybp, so before the creation of the Western Iberian Portuguese Kingdom, of course we don't have a closer Portuguese sample when my YF01554 line moved to Brazil (1250 to 300 ybp) in the same way we don't have a closer Iranian sample when they moved to Western Iberia, probably related with the Alanic movements from the Caspian Sea to Lusitania in the Fall of the Roman Empire.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/

    We have another Flemish J1-FGC6064 M365+ in this recent article - Defining Y-SNP variation among the Flemish population (Western Europe) by full genome sequencing
    Flemish j1 - FGC6064+
    MMML010 21563544 A G / FGC6134 (A->G) +
    MMML010 13976119 G T / FGC6056 (G->T) +

    MMML010 21563544 A G / FGC6134 (A->G) +
    22951621 FGC6157 (T->C) -
    MMML010 23609522 C A / FGC6166 (C->A) +
    23772065 FGC6168 (T->C) -
    22233171 Y19468 -
    22039672 FGC5988 (G->A) -
    7622855 FGC6025 -
    7649231 FGC6026 -
    8291271 FGC6035 -
    MMML010 13976119 G T / FGC6056 (G->T) + Babak +
    15239840 FGC6077 (A->C) -
    15728762 FGC6083 (C->T) -
    15752167 FGC6085 (G->A) -
    16632599 FGC6095 (T->G) -
    17913993 FGC6111 (A->G) -
    MMML010 2888678 A G / M365 (A->G) +

    Regards
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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  5. #13
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    Case closed I think : version 6.01 of Yfull has finally given the TMRCA estimate between portuguese and iranian J1-M365, giving it an age of 2400 years, in line with a historical scenario.
    Last edited by Squad; 01-04-2018 at 11:42 AM.

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  7. #14
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    Caspian-Caucasian Connection to the Westernmost Atlantic Peninsula. From the Persian Achaemenid Empire to the Portuguese Empire. Old Y-DNA J1–M365 and trail of ancient SNPs.

    FGC6064 is a basal Y-DNA J1 branch probably native from regions around the Southwestern Caspian Sea and the Caucasus Mountains. FGC6064 is very ancient with 15000 years old estimated by YFull. The first distribution is close to those Northern Middle Eastern regions in Northern Iran and Eastern Anatolia at minor frequencies where no other haplogroup has a prevalent hegemony. We could observe only two organized clusters via STR analysis of YHRD and SMGF databases: Northern Iran and Portuguese Empire. We also can find some individual cases in England, the Persian Gulf, Anatolia and Belgium-Flanders.

    J-Y19467 in YFull’s analysis estimated the temporal distance (TMRCA) between the Iranian and Portuguese-Brazilian clusters in 2400 years, so in the time frame of the Achaemenid Empire when the Ancient Iranian Peoples had a strong demographic growth in the Persian Empire and in adjacent regions.

    J-FGC6035 - Single Burst Movement to Western Iberia – We can try to explain the existence of two geographically distant clusters with one historical singularity, the historical movement of the Iranic Alans via Continental Europe from the Caspian Sea to Lusitania in the Fall of the Roman Empire. The Alans joined the Suebi in Northwestern Iberia. History remembers facts and names associated with the Alans in Western Iberia. The Alans were the first to bring the idea of a warrior mounted aristocracy of knights in Iberia. The Alan king, Attaces, was killed in battle, the first Western Iberian king to fight and be recorded as a model for several rulers in the History of the region. The Alans left several other remnants.
    Reconquista –After the Islamic invasion led by Arabs and Berbers, the Northern Iberian Christian populations reorganized and fought back. We can observe only a few Galaico-Portuguese haplotypes and clusters distributed exclusively in Western Iberian and present from Northern Gallaecia, Galicia, the Minho to Central and Southern Portugal, moving afterwards to the New Ultramarine Conquistas, the Azores and Brazil. We still can find Alanic names in Portuguese Medieval Times, just like Mendo Alão, the Warlord from Bragança, that could or not be related to the Ancient Alans in Iberia. The demographic movement and pattern of the cluster in the Portuguese Empire can be explained by well established social positions in the Portuguese National State, Portuguese bureaucracy, navy and army, usually associated with literate and free landowners from the Minho. By the law of large numbers we can find individuals from this cluster at approximately 0.4% of the total Portuguese demographic stock, including the big Brazilian numbers.

    Identifying regional Portuguese STR’s and SNP’s. Now we are going to have our first Big Y test from the Island of Pico, in the Azores, we already have detected a specific STR marker from the Island in the Y-37 modal from the main group and we are going to know the first specific Azorean SNPs from this lineage probably related to one of the first settler of the Azores.
    One small but decisive component in the History of the Portuguese Empire.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/
    Last edited by RCO; 01-11-2018 at 02:29 PM.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Caspian-Caucasian Connection to the Westernmost Atlantic Peninsula. From the Persian Achaemenid Empire to the Portuguese Empire. Old Y-DNA J1–M365 and trail of ancient SNPs.

    FGC6064 is a basal Y-DNA J1 branch probably native from regions around the Southwestern Caspian Sea and the Caucasus Mountains. FGC6064 is very ancient with 15000 years old estimated by YFull. The first distribution is close to those Northern Middle Eastern regions in Northern Iran and Eastern Anatolia at minor frequencies where no other haplogroup has a prevalent hegemony. We could observe only two organized clusters via STR analysis of YHRD and SMGF databases: Northern Iran and Portuguese Empire. We also can find some individual cases in England, the Persian Gulf, Anatolia and Belgium-Flanders.

    J-Y19467 in YFull’s analysis estimated the temporal distance (TMRCA) between the Iranian and Portuguese-Brazilian clusters in 2400 years, so in the time frame of the Achaemenid Empire when the Ancient Iranian Peoples had a strong demographic growth in the Persian Empire and in adjacent regions.

    J-FGC6035 - Single Burst Movement to Western Iberia – We can try to explain the existence of two geographically distant clusters with one historical singularity, the historical movement of the Iranic Alans via Continental Europe from the Caspian Sea to Lusitania in the Fall of the Roman Empire. The Alans joined the Suebi in Northwestern Iberia. History remembers facts and names associated with the Alans in Western Iberia. The Alans were the first to bring the idea of a warrior mounted aristocracy of knights in Iberia. The Alan king, Attaces, was killed in battle, the first Western Iberian king to fight and be recorded as a model for several rulers in the History of the region. The Alans left several other remnants.
    Reconquista –After the Islamic invasion led by Arabs and Berbers, the Northern Iberian Christian populations reorganized and fought back. We can observe only a few Galaico-Portuguese haplotypes and clusters distributed exclusively in Western Iberian and present from Northern Gallaecia, Galicia, the Minho to Central and Southern Portugal, moving afterwards to the New Ultramarine Conquistas, the Azores and Brazil. We still can find Alanic names in Portuguese Medieval Times, just like Mendo Alão, the Warlord from Bragança, that could or not be related to the Ancient Alans in Iberia. The demographic movement and pattern of the cluster in the Portuguese Empire can be explained by well established social positions in the Portuguese National State, Portuguese bureaucracy, navy and army, usually associated with literate and free landowners from the Minho. By the law of large numbers we can find individuals from this cluster at approximately 0.4% of the total Portuguese demographic stock, including the big Brazilian numbers.

    Identifying regional Portuguese STR’s and SNP’s. Now we are going to have our first Big Y test from the Island of Pico, in the Azores, we already have detected a specific STR marker from the Island in the Y-37 modal from the main group and we are going to know the first specific Azorean SNPs from this lineage probably related to one of the first settler of the Azores.
    One small but decisive component in the History of the Portuguese Empire.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/
    Congratulations Ricardo, your working hypothesis seems more and more sound!
    Last edited by Shamash; 01-12-2018 at 11:49 AM.

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  11. #16
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    Now we have an Azorean specific subgroup in the Portuguese J1-M365 FGC6035 cluster with a new SNP BY82400 already present at FTDNA's haplotree. YFull could calculate the TMRCA of BY82400 probably related to the islands' settlements around 600 years more or less.

    J1-FGC6064 julho de 2018.jpg
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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  13. #17
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    Hey there RCO! People told me that you could help me. You can read my post here

    showthread dot php?16282-Guessing-my-haplogroup

    So, how how do you think j1 entered Portugal? The alans maybe?!

    Im new to all of this! btw are you portuguese too?

  14. #18
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    Salve Amigo, Yes I read your post and I would recommend FTDNA Y-12 or Y-37. We can find different types of J1 in Portugal with different origins and if you can have your haplotype we can discover your haplogroup and branch. I am a Brazilian of Portuguese Colonial Ancestry (mostly).
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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  16. #19
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    aaronbee2010 recommended me YSEQ. I already order it. It should arrive this week and i wil get my results the week after. Do you now how deep the cheaper test is? M267 (15$). Will i get enough info or just confirmation that im j1?

  17. #20
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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazil
    The M267 test will only confirm that you are J1. You can also try the J1-M267 Superclade Panel
    http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=30693
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

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