R1-M458 - could it be spread by Sauromats and Alans?
1. M458 is widly spread in Central and Eastern Europe. Could be even a remain of Cordeds.
2. Small clades scattered across whole Europe suggest that it is pre-slavic hg.
3. Only two clades are main, but they are +/- 2000 years old, so potentially, only they could be slavic.
4. Rest is very doubtfull.
5. The oldest clades are find in such places like Wales, Sardinia, Kosovo, Balkaria and Vyat'ka.
6. One in Poland of unknown origin, and mine which actually is not from Poland, but from the West.
It could be from the Brandenburgia, Swabia/Bavaria or even Latium/Apulia or something between.
7. So I belive, that M458 is rather of preslavic origin in general, and these examples could be
spread even in deep antiquity, for example with first IE migrations or by many other possibilites,
like the Goths, Völkerwanderung, relocations of people during Roman period, slave trade, single
personal migrations, even with Vikings (where Slavs were as well) and so on, many events fit
to almost all of that distant locations.
8. But lastly I started wondering if this could not be spreaded by Sauromatians and/or Alanians.
9. Why? Becasue:
a) High frequences of M458 are outside of core slavic lands like caucasian Karachays (27,5%),
Balkars (23,5%) where is one of the oldest clades probably close to mine, 7,8% among Black
(Kara)Nogays, 3,4% among Abazins -also from the northern Caucasus.
b) And these generally are former lands of Alania. It is quite unprobable, that all of it is from
Russians, especially, that M458 is not their main clade, and that caucasian nations are quite
hermetic groups, not happy about mixing with others (at least they claim such thing).
c) Traditionaly part of Slavs is descendning from Sauromatians, and even historically it is/was
quite serious possibility and hypothesy. Lastly was even found scythian settlement in Poland,
so later sauromatian influence, combined with serbian and croatian potential sauromatianess,
can explain easly, why M458 is spread among Slavs.
d) Even this guy from Viat'ka not necessarly has to be originaly from Slavs, becasue that area
(or at least it's direct southern neighbours) was settled by Sauromatians when they existed.
e) M458 on Sardinia, can be also easly explain by patricipation of Alans in Vandalian Kingdom in
northern Africa, which did include in it's realm also the Sardinia island... It can also explain totaly
hypothetical origin of mine from Italy, based on onomastic ties and historical timing.
f) Guy from Wales can be also easly explained, especially by these who did watch "King Arthur"
2004But historically it was confirmed that some Sauromatians did serve as militaries in Britain.
g) Guy from Kosovo could be a remains of such romanized Sauromatians or
came with Serbs - who are consider in their past as sarmatian subtribe per
se, and in addition trace back themselves from... Caucasus...
h) Guy from Poland - a remains of Serbs, Croats or other "polish" slavicized Sauromatians.
10.So, what do you think about such possibility?
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Originally Posted by Kuzmosi
