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Thread: Somalis and E-Y17859

  1. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    I am not so much talking exactly about E-V32 as i am talking about the High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males. This is what characterizes bulk of the majority of Somalis and this marker has it's origins in Somalis in our present day homeland.
    It was taken from Denmark in the early 2000s. Most Somalis there at that time were mostly Darod and Hawiye. It also looks like Benadiri lineages are overrepresented.

    Frequency of T in Somalis can vary widely depending where it is taken. In Dire Dawa it reached like 80%. Some small towns in the Somali province of Ethiopia it also reached 50%.

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  3. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    It was taken from Denmark in the early 2000s. Most Somalis there at that time were mostly Darod and Hawiye. It also looks like Benadiri lineages are overrepresented.

    Frequency of T in Somalis can vary widely depending where it is taken. In Dire Dawa it reached like 80%. Some small towns in the Somali province of Ethiopia it also reached 50%.
    The recent genome wide analysis kindly answers this: Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population

    However, recent evidences based on Y-STR haplotypes studied on Somalis from diverse geographic locations and clans suggest that ethnic Somalis are largely homogenous17, supporting the representativeness of our samples for the larger Somali population.
    The high T in some Ogaden and Dir groups is most likely due to founder effect. I noted this particular Y cluster because it originated in the Somali population in the Horn Of Africa, then introduced elsewhere and is the most widely distributed among Somalis. The Times Most Recent Ancestor for this is 4000-5000 years and acts as evidence for the ancient occupancy of Somalis an ethnic group in the Horn.
    Last edited by Mirix; 05-29-2021 at 06:17 PM.

  4. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    The recent genome wide analysis kindly answers this: Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population



    The high T in some Ogaden and Dir groups is most likely due to founder effect. I noted this particular Y cluster because it originated in the Somali population in the Horn Of Africa, then introduced elsewhere and is the most widely distributed among Somalis. The Times Most Recent Ancestor for this is 4000-5000 years and acts as evidence for the ancient occupancy of Somalis an ethnic group in the Horn.
    Those Somalis are entirely from Bosaso in Puntland so they may not be entirely representative. I turned those samples into 23andme files but unfortunately they have pretty poor overlap with the 1240K snp set.
    Last edited by Mnemonics; 05-29-2021 at 06:47 PM.

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  6. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnemonics View Post
    Those Somalis are entirely from Bosaso in Puntland so they may not be entirely representative. I turned those samples into 23andme files but unfortunately they have pretty poor overlap with the 1240K snp set.
    Look at what i qouted. They cited that that studies on Y-STR haplotypes studied on Somalis from diverse geographic locations and clans suggest that ethnic Somalis are largely homogenous , supporting the representativeness of our samples for the larger Somali population.

    As well as:
    In addition, frequencies of ABO and Rh blood groups estimated in this study are consistent with those found in an earlier study performed in 1987 by the Somali Red Crescent Society and the Finnish Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service who analyzed 1,026 blood samples of Somalis from the entire country26. Although ABO/Rh systems tend to show similar distributions for all neighboring populations, our genotypic blood group estimation is remarkably very close to the previously reported Somali phenotypic blood group data, again supporting a representative Somali population in our cohort.
    I don't know what's been argued about, because i was saying that particular Y cluster shows that ethnic Somali ancestors were in their present homeland 4500-5000 years ago. That marker is significant because it orignates within the Somali population in the Horn. T however isn't

    And yes Somali are largely homogenous .

  7. #535
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    Found another E-M293 Somali on 23andMe (new). His clan is Gaaljecel. The other one was Degoodia. These two clans both descend from Saransor (abtiris).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardhere

    Maybe there is something to this..

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  9. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Does the South have Madhibaan,Tumaal and Yibir? I always wondered who were the blacksmiths of the south
    Artisan bondsmen groups exist spread out amongst almost every Somali clan family and widely scattered.. Madhibaan are the most numerous and widely distributed among them, you can find them in Ethiopia, South Somalia, Somaliland, Djibouti and NorthernEastern Kenya etc and they do not constitute a single clan or related to eachother, but come from different clan groups usually from the clan families and lineages they attach themselves to.

    Yibir exist only scattered across Somaliland i believe and they have been steadily decreasing in number though. The Tumaal exist both in Somaliland and most numerous among easterners Like Dhulbahante and Majerteen they claim Darood lineage. Tumaals found big inclusion in the Hobyo sultanate and was hired into important positions.

    In the south in Merka a section of Bimaal that are artisans who live on the coast called the Fashaale/Kafaari they are craftsmen and blacksmiths and then there are ones that are Abgaal/Hiraab called Juunji they are traditionally blacksmiths and shoemakers. Some also prepare hides and skins. They also work as porters , masons and carpenters in Merka and Mogadishu coast.

    In Barawa most of the coastal Tunni's are artisans, weavers and craftsmen. They are also builders.

    There probably exist other ones that i am not aware of. But i suspect among the Raxanweyn it's less relegated to bondsmen because of their different subsistence level. Much like how it is in the fertile Harar uplands among Hawiye and a few other clans which Richard Burton noted.

    Because among the Raxanweyn they have a group of reewin artisan and craftmen called Eemaar who are an association headed by an Aw(Father), ruling the raan(members) and another group called Ooji(Contstruction workers). They are not considered low strata.
    Last edited by Mirix; 06-11-2021 at 05:13 PM.

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  11. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    Found another E-M293 Somali on 23andMe (new). His clan is Gaaljecel. The other one was Degoodia. These two clans both descend from Saransor (abtiris).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardhere

    Maybe there is something to this..
    That's interesting. It will be good to know, how many E-M293 Somalis, we each have on our 23andme relatives list.

    I have two:

    One is either Banadiri/Barawani or mixed. He is only 61% Autosomal Somali, and 39% mostly Eurasian and Ethiopian/Eritrean.
    He is from the US.

    The second one is from Mandera (kenyan Somali) lives in the Uk.
    Last edited by farjanomar; 06-12-2021 at 01:21 AM. Reason: did not mean it

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  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by farjanomar View Post
    That's interesting. It will be good to know, how many E-M293 Somalis, we each have on our 23andme relatives list.

    I have two:

    One is either Banadiri/Barawani or mixed. He is only 61% Autosomal Somali, and 39% mostly Eurasian and Ethiopian/Eritrean.
    He is from the US.

    The second one is from Mandera (kenyan Somali) lives in the Uk.
    I have at least one confirmed claiming to be from Jigjiga. 98.8% Somali and the rest equal other Horner and Peninsular Arab.

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  15. #539
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    I think the vast majority of the low frequency E-M293 in Somalia proper is probably from Afro-Arabs perhaps in Northern Kenya or Ethiopia is it more possible that it came from Cushitic/Ethio-Semitic sources.I still don't have a single match with that haplogroup

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  17. #540
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    I have a Warsengeli relative on my 23andme relatives list that carries E-M293. According to his bio his mother is Hawiya and his paternal grandmother is Isaaq (‘Iise Muse). His father is a northern Warsengeli.

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