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Thread: LivingDNA added to the ISOGG Y-SNP testing comparison chart:

  1. #1
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    LivingDNA added to the ISOGG Y-SNP testing comparison chart:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerijoe View Post
    I asked them to put YSEQ in back in 2015 (!) so I have added them belatedly now.
    Last edited by MacUalraig; 08-02-2017 at 11:52 AM.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
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    Thank you for adding YSEQ to the chart. However, as previously explained by private e-mail, we are currently seeking feedback on what to do with this Y-SNP testing comparison chart. Adding Living DNA to the chart and removing BritainsDNA was a temporary measure prior to a pending re-organisation of the content. If anyone has any suggestions or feedback you can add comments to the discussion page or contribute to the discussions on Facebook or in the ISOGG Project Admins group on Yahoo:

    https://isogg.org/wiki/Talk:Y-DNA_ne...ion_sequencing

    The Wiki is edited by volunteers. There is a limit as to how much free time can be spent on this work. The migration of content from the old website had to take priority over decisions on how to re-organise the SNP testing charts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebbieK View Post
    Thank you for adding YSEQ to the chart. However, as previously explained by private e-mail, we are currently seeking feedback on what to do with this Y-SNP testing comparison chart. Adding Living DNA to the chart and removing BritainsDNA was a temporary measure prior to a pending re-organisation of the content. If anyone has any suggestions or feedback you can add comments to the discussion page or contribute to the discussions on Facebook or in the ISOGG Project Admins group on Yahoo:

    https://isogg.org/wiki/Talk:Y-DNA_ne...ion_sequencing

    The Wiki is edited by volunteers. There is a limit as to how much free time can be spent on this work. The migration of content from the old website had to take priority over decisions on how to re-organise the SNP testing charts.
    Personally I'm reluctant to get too drawn into the project as I have too many issues with it and I wouldn't know where to start ;-)

    In the specific, I don't quite get why you think the LDNA test is more appropriate on that Y-SNP page than YSEQ? but anyway...

    Clearly we need a chart for NGS but it has to make it clear that WGS tests are a superset of Y tests so WGS tests shouldn't be removed from some kind of general Y comparison chart. And YSEQ which quickly overtook Chromo2 for SNPs and hence has much better coverage than LDNA (which has less than C2) has to be shown alongside for comparison.

    I am not on any ISOGG forums.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacUalraig View Post
    Personally I'm reluctant to get too drawn into the project as I have too many issues with it and I wouldn't know where to start ;-)

    In the specific, I don't quite get why you think the LDNA test is more appropriate on that Y-SNP page than YSEQ? but anyway...

    Clearly we need a chart for NGS but it has to make it clear that WGS tests are a superset of Y tests so WGS tests shouldn't be removed from some kind of general Y comparison chart. And YSEQ which quickly overtook Chromo2 for SNPs and hence has much better coverage than LDNA (which has less than C2) has to be shown alongside for comparison.

    I am not on any ISOGG forums.
    Sorry I assumed you'd sent your previous e-mail in response to my original post on the ISOGG list. What issues do you have the Wiki? If there is any incorrect information then we need to know. There are so many changes that it's difficult to keep up.

    The tests shown on the SNP chart are all single tests whereas we now have a column not for a single test but for a range of tests offered by a single company so we're not comparing like with like. If anything it might be better to have the YSEQ WGS test in the chart and include a note that the company also offers single SNP testing and SNP panels but then do we want NGS tests on two different charts? Living DNA fitted the existing criteria because it's the name of a single test. I only in fact added Living DNA as an afterthought after removing BritainsDNA. That upset the column widths and adding Living DNA seemed like the easiest short term solution until a decision had been made as to what to do with the charts.

    If we start getting down to comparing SNP packs and SNP panels I suspect it's going to be too complicated to keep up with all the changes. You can't directly compare SNP packs/panels with microarray and NGS testing because you can't take a SNP pack test unless you already know your haplogroup from prior testing.

    Living DNA are still validating the Y-DNA and mtDNA SNPs on their chip so I think the coverage will improve once this has been done. I imagine that coverage will vary from one haplogroup to another.

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    I recommended these additional factors.

    Posted by myself on ISOGG yahoo group for Debbie K.

    Please add rows for additional factors to consider:

    - Y Haplogroup Project web-based support system

    - Surname Project web-based support system

    - Geographic Project web-based support system

    - Integrated match search function for genetic genealogy support.

    - Estimated size of matching database for genetic genealogy support

    - Integrated Y DNA haplogroup tree


    Your "Main purpose of test" factor is extremely important. I recommend breaking this apart into separate factors (rows) that could include:


    - Discovery of an individual's paternal lineage of Y SNPs

    - Identification of Y DNA haplogroup on the known tree

    - Health traits

    - General biogeographical ancestry

    - Identification of mt DNA haplogroup on the known tree


    ISOGG has larger issues when creating these kinds of charts, though. These kinds of "simple" comparison charts end up not being accurate if too simple but not being useful if too complex. I think the discussion on the ISOGG yahoo group is in the middle of figuring that out but some probably won't accept that simplification is not so easy.

    You can't beat a good open conversation for learning.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 08-02-2017 at 04:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebbieK View Post
    Living DNA are still validating the Y-DNA and mtDNA SNPs on their chip so I think the coverage will improve once this has been done. I imagine that coverage will vary from one haplogroup to another.
    Based on my "R-L151" Y-DNA results I'd recommend Living DNA for your "Genetic Astrology" list - they couldn't identify R-P312...
    Last edited by rod; 08-03-2017 at 01:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rod View Post
    Based on my "R-L151" Y-DNA results I'd recommend Living DNA for your "Genetic Astrology" list - they couldn't identify R-P312...
    Rod, Genetic astrology is a term normally used to describe romantic storytelling about haplogroups. There are many SNP that can't be read well on microarrays and I believe P312 is one of them. Wasn't there a similar problem with P312 in the Genographic test? Others with more knowledge might be able to advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    ... These kinds of "simple" comparison charts end up not being accurate if too simple but not being useful if too complex.
    ...
    You can't beat a good open conversation for learning.
    I'll post on the ISOGG yahoo group on this since that is where the conversation opened but I want to explain more about this.

    Creating charts likes these that are simple enough and easy enough for newbies (who need them) is very important, but very difficult. It's hard to simplify and abbreviate descriptions, particularly as it relates to technical jargon that newbies are likely unfamiliar with.

    Putting the various types of Y SNP test offerings on a single table is comparing apples and oranges so it makes sense to separate comparison tables by by test type. However, that adds complexity.

    A chart of charts or table that summarizes the various test types might be helpful. There could be links to the specific test type tables, one form multi-purpose fixed SNP tests, one for fixed Y SNP tests(panels), one for NGS, etc. I'm not sure where WGS fits in. Maybe it should be its own category.

    However, it might be better to make this chart of charts or master Y SNP test reference more of a tutorial than purely a chart. Of course, encouragement should be made to the audience to encourage newbies to join the appropriate discussion forum, like the DNA-newbies group.

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    Side note. I see the price for the YElite on that wiki is outdated. The YElite 2.1 is currently at $645. Recently came down from $795 weeks (months?) ago.

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