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Thread: Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-ray View Post
    Of course the Greek language evolved in Greece. Do you think the people in Greece were moot?

    50,000 years ago the first Homo-Sapiens came to Europe and settle in Northern Greece (Hellads). 20,000 years ago a branch of these occpied the Iberian Alps (Iberians) and 10,000 years ago a different branch occupied Phoenicia/Syria-Palestine.

    The Germanic and Slavic branch of the Europeans was completely isolated from the Mediterranean branch LONG before the end of the last Ice age since there is no Phoenician component in their DNA which is present in all other Europeans.

    All Europeans have 7 female ancestors and 10 male ancestors who migrated around Europe over a period of 50,000 years. The thing that characterises European races is the percentage ratio of the DNA mutations in their populations. These races are all descended from various combinations of 7 founding mothers and 10 founding fathers.

    If their language came from a single common ancestor then this would have been URSULA since only her marker is present in ALL European DNA. That means that the common language was already spoken 50,000 years ago by the Ursula's living in Greece. Ursula's cannot have remained completely mute and without a language for 38,000 years. The Greek language definitely evolved in Greece.

    Ursula is the oldest in Europe:


    Only the Founding Mothers would have been able to communicate language to their of spring. Any population of Male raiders would have not passed on its language to its decedents (because they would have been out on the hunt or a war during their children's childhood) unless it brought its own women.

    The first male linage that reached Greece, specifically Macedonia was J2, 50,000 years ago which was the male analogue of the female linage Ursula that was also in Macedonia at this time. The other female linages did not come to Europe until 25,000 years ago so Greece would have been composed of an ethnically homogeneous tribe.

    Jasmine first came to Cyprus and Crete. The archaeology showing traces of civilisation and farming in these places goes back 10,000 years and is older than the Greek mainland.

    Jasmine came to Greek 10,000 years ago, but a Ursula also went to Palestine at around the same time. After all two way trading links were established so that would be expected. The SECOND most predominant DNA marker in Phoenician populations in the Ursula marker.

    What the facts indicate is that the Ursula Greeks has spread to all parts of Europe and the Middles East at the specific time that the so-called "Proto-Afro-Eurasian" language is supposed to have evolved. PAE the ancestor of all European and Afro-Asiatic languages must therefore have evolved from GREEK.

    The DNA shows that although originally all Ursula and then Ursula-Jasmine, the population of Greece then becomes dominated by the Helena's.

    The Ancient Greeks were made up of 3 main DNA linages. The Ursula linage came to Macedonia 50,000 years ago.

    The Mycenaean's were R1b hunter gather invaders that came to the Balkans in 5000 BC from Iberia and merged with the indigenous J2 and EV13 agricultural lineages.

    Each of the mt linages is associated with a respective y linage. Either we believe the ridicules idea that the R1b's wiped out all the Helena men so that not even one single specimen survived to procreate and bear male offspring or we accept that the Helena men were R1b's.

    M89 is far older and evolved in northern Syria and Anatolia 50,000 years ago while R1b evolved in ASIA 30,000 years ago via M9 and M145 and only entered Europe 17,000 years ago only after R1b has split off and remained in Asia. J2 evolved directly form M89 and was in Greece thousands of years before R1 reached Europe and many thousands of years before R1 reached the Balkans.

    If the Germanics and Slavs were living in the Black Sea region at the same time as the Mediterranean populations in 3000 BC ie. after the last ice age as the discredited and defunct Proto-Indo-European theory relies up then WOMEN would have needed to be living there also and thus the matriarchal line of Germanics and Slavs would show the presence of the Phoenician DNA that these populations picked up in 8000 BC. THERE IS NO TRACE of Phoenician DNA in Germanics and Slavs which implies that they were completely ISOLATED from the Mediterranean Populations long before the last Ice Age.

    The data for the Mediterranean shows Jasmine Females marrying Hellena and Ursula males. If the Heleana and Ursula population were living together with the Germanic and Slavic populations in 3000 BC the Jasmine component would be present in almost all Germanics and Slavs. It is extremely unlikely that an all male Mediterranean population migrated to the Black sea, mixed with the Germanic and Slavs and then came back. Not only that but it is completely impossible for any Germanic or Slavic females to have settled in the Mediterranean until 600 AD since there is no Germanic or Slavic component in Sicilian DNA which derives form the Greek colonists of Southern Italy that dominated the area from 1800 to 200 BC. It does not.

    The Ursula and the other mutations probably occurred in Cyprus and Palestine. The Ursula's left for Greece and everyone else moved into the caucuses and mutated some more. I should have stated that is was Homo-Sapiens-Sapiens Europus I was referring to.

    Velda, Tara, and Katrine were daughters of Homo-Sapiens-Sapiens Europus. Some Ursula's migrated north and met up with the Velda's, Tara's, and Katrine's and combined with them, but not many.

    In 6000-5000 BC near the end of last Ice age the Hellads en-mass conquered Syria-Palestine. The Hellads were already there first, 30,000 years earlier than anyone else.

    The DNA profile shows more Ursula's in the middle east than in Greece yet they originated in Greece. They must have been expelled.

    What we need is a coloration with archeology and historical accounts. The account of Solon/Plato calls the Equatai (Atlantians) Barbarians. Herodotus tells us that even the Ionians were considered Barbarians.

    Taken in correct context this means that the Ionians and Equatai were not considered to be Achaeans.
    The Biblical account places Ion as father of Hellene and of the Rhodians, Thracians and Cretans/Cypriots . The Greek account makes Ion Hellenes Grandson and also mentions an Io (Ioun) who was the ancestor of Cadmus and Europe. This means that the were many Ursula related migrations occurring at different times.

    Greece had a comply different climate and a rich soil in 1800 BC before the Thera eruption and this is also recorded by Solon/Plato. The Archaeology shows evidence of a migration in 2200 BC and a second wave in 1800.

    The DNA shows that although the population of Greece was all Ursula and then Ursula-Jasmine, the population becomes dominated by Helena's.

    Between 1800 and 1650 the Achaeans conqured the Ionians also known as Equatai in Mycenaean Greek or Ekwash in Hittite and force them out of Europe. They fled to Egypt and were known there as the Hyksos.

    The Achaeans were stronger than the Equatai, but the Equatai were stronger than the Egyptians. They had Chariot Warfare and trained Horses. The Egyptians did not.
    Did you seriously just say the Mycenaean's were from Iberia? Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    Did you seriously just say the Mycenaean's were from Iberia? Lol
    There were no such people who called themselves Mycaneans. But part of the Hellenes came from Iberia via the Balkans. (R linage, H mtdna) When they originally arrived to Balkans around 5000 years ago, they did not speak Greek. Over a span of millenia they mixed with the other linages and Hellenes were born. They were Hellenes around 2500 BC when they were still in the Balkans.

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    I'm new here but how does Anthrogenica handle stuff like this? This is obvious "woo," one step removed from Atlantis and UFOs, that descended on what had been an interesting scientific discussion. Do you endure it or split it off into a new thread?

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    Surely, this is all an elaborate joke?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peternorth View Post
    Surely, this is all an elaborate joke?
    Which one? That Minoans were not Greeks, they were unrelated to Greeks and their civilization was not Greek? Yeah that is the biggest joke of all. The joke is on all those morons who have been claiming this, the same morons who for over a century refused to believe that Linear B could not possibly be Greek.

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    I'm a long time lurker and enthusiastic layman reader of this and other genetic anthropological sites, deeply interested in the to-and-fro of the latest scientific discoveries and revising the past of Europe's deep ancestral past, with modern DNA technology forcing the debunking of deeply held historical dogma and orthodoxy.
    I enjoy the cut and thrust of genuine argument based on genuine points.
    But, one thing that my long days of lurking on genetic anthropology sites has taught me is that a good number of posters on these sites are motivated primarily by chauvinism rather than science - and just utterly unhinged those feelings of chauvinism are.
    Now, I know who genocidal world wars start. I'm getting a glimpse into dark passions and psychology I'd rather not have had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peternorth View Post
    I'm a long time lurker and enthusiastic layman reader of this and other genetic anthropological sites, deeply interested in the to-and-fro of the latest scientific discoveries and revising the past of Europe's deep ancestral past, with modern DNA technology forcing the debunking of deeply held historical dogma and orthodoxy.
    I enjoy the cut and thrust of genuine argument based on genuine points.
    But, one thing that my long days of lurking on genetic anthropology sites has taught me is that a good number of posters on these sites are motivated primarily by chauvinism rather than science - and just utterly unhinged those feelings of chauvinism are.
    Now, I know who genocidal world wars start. I'm getting a glimpse into dark passions and psychology I'd rather not have had.
    Anthrogenica does better than any other forum or comment section I've seen—but indeed, far from perfect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kostoffj View Post
    I'm new here but how does Anthrogenica handle stuff like this? This is obvious "woo," one step removed from Atlantis and UFOs, that descended on what had been an interesting scientific discussion. Do you endure it or split it off into a new thread?
    Just like we have to put up with your misleading, unscientific and in many cases moronic posts, you will too have to agree to disagree with diferrent points of view who happen to be backed up by historians and archeology, instead of calling for other peoples ban. It is called democratic conduct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-ray View Post
    It is called democratic conduct.
    Science is not a democracy and what you're peddling in posts such as this one is not science but lunacy. Ursula, Jasmine and Tara? What kinda coo-coo and outdated shit is this? Have you been under a rock for the last decade or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by X-ray
    instead of calling for other peoples ban
    I'm afraid a ban is exactly what might be coming for you if you keep posting all this nonsense in such quick succession:

    Quote Originally Posted by Terms of Service
    3.13 Anthrogenica is a forum for free and honest discussion. It is not a pulpit to proselytize or to promote certain viewpoints that would be better-suited to a personal blog. Such behaviour is prohibited. What constitutes the aforementioned, and whether infraction delivery is warranted, will be determined at the administration's discretion.

    3.14 Pseudoscientific material that is presented as scientific will be deleted immediately and without notice by the administration. Furthermore, it is the poster's duty to preemptively determine whether their imminent posts contain masked pseudoscience.
    If you want to understand the actual scientific break-down regarding these Minoan and Mycenaean samples; read the study and rummage through the discussions that went on in the earlier pages of this thread; but, I'm sure your chauvinism or whatever is at play here will render you deaf to all of that.
    فار عارابإ آ واجإب اه

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