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Thread: Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans

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    We know that there were HG inhabitants (Paleo and Mesolithics) in Greece prior to the arrival of Neolithic G2A's and they certainly impacted the genetic makeup of Bronze age Greeks but they always seem to be ignored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC View Post
    We know that there were HG inhabitants (Paleo and Mesolithics) in Greece prior to the arrival of Neolithic G2A's and they certainly impacted the genetic makeup of Bronze age Greeks but they always seem to be ignored.
    Any evidences for that ? HGs in Greece left like in the rest of Europe only minimal genetic traces. There is (probably ) some extra HG ancestry but it is rather from Indo-Europeans which picked it in Central Europe.

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    There were not straights and sea inlets between Anatolia and South Balkans before 7000BC. there was continuity between Balkans/Greece Mesolithics and Anatolian Mesolithics, and certainly not an important genetic difference. Probably the Balkans Mountains were a most important barrier, specially during theLate IceAge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Any evidences for that ? HGs in Greece left like in the rest of Europe only minimal genetic traces. There is (probably ) some extra HG ancestry but it is rather from Indo-Europeans which picked it in Central Europe.
    Aren't there evidences they absorbed some Balkan HGs en route ?

    Like the early RV88 lineages found in Neolithic Spain and Nuragic Sardinia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bealfire View Post
    Aren't there evidences they absorbed some Balkan HGs en route ?

    Like the early RV88 lineages found in Neolithic Spain and Nuragic Sardinia.
    It is hard to detect without more ancient DNA how much genetic legacy HGs left in Greece. We need HG genomes from Greece and a good source of steppe ancestry. Greece unlike Spain or Central Europe received more immigration waves from Anatolia so that prior to Indo-Europeans CHG ancestry probably already existed there and HG ancestry was more diluted than in Spain or Central Europe but this is just my opinion and maybe I am very wrong.

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    There are two mtDNA from Greek HG's available, both are K1c. Samples called Theo1 and Theo5.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/113/25/6886
    Last edited by epoch; 06-23-2019 at 04:25 PM.

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    I've heard that R1b-z2103 has been found in at least one Mycenean elite grave, and that it is not present (so far) among the commoners, but I don't know when it would be published.
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    Well, that's exactly what you'd expect if Proto-Greek was Yamnaya-mediated. I wonder what their sample size is for elite vs commoner. Did your source hint at an autosomal difference?
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    I've heard that R1b-z2103 has been found in at least one Mycenean elite grave, and that it is not present (so far) among the commoners, but I don't know when it would be published.
    R1b-Z2103 is also found in other steppe populations apart from Yamnaya.

    And, for instance, let's assume that it pops up in Sredny Stog and derived groups.
    Last edited by Generalissimo; 09-27-2019 at 08:06 AM.

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    By the way, I am aware of an R1b in an elite Mycenaean grave, but it's not Z2103. So let's wait and see, because R1b also pops up in other cultures around the east Med, and it's probably from Beakers coming from the west Med.

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