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Thread: Modeling Slavs as mixtures of >100 ancients

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Firemonkey, in my version you get this for 3000-1000 years ago:

    IA_BritishCelt_6DRIF23 18.05
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4 15.55
    MA_Northumbria_NO3423 13.85
    MA_AngloSaxon_HS2 13.25
    IA_GaelicCelt_6DRIF18 9.20
    IA_PictishBrit_6DRIF21 8.85
    3kyaBA_Mezhovskaya_RISE524 6.50
    IA_Wielbark_Kow22 4.90
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 3.35
    IA_Germano-Celt_6DRIF3 3.20
    3kyaBA_Denmark_RISE47 2.65
    3kyaBA_Sweden_RISE175 0.55
    IA_Sarmatian_I0574 0.10

    Makes much more sense for a British person than getting Wielbark.

    I can also check your results for 5000-3000 and 7000-5000 years ago.
    If you could I would be most grateful.
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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I made these runs for Slavic populations trying to figure out where did the population ancestral to Proto-Slavs live in the Bronze Age or in the Iron Age.
    One problem though is some of the Slavic tribes invaded the eastern Baltic tribe region and thus picked up lots of Baltic gene patterns. So what you think a modern Slavic population gets by picking up an ancient Lithuanian component could be a mix of just picking up very ancient greater regional hunter-gatherer as well as Baltic stuff picked up after the invasions and the latter would have nothing to do with some super early proto-Slavs, no?

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombatofthenorth View Post
    One problem though is some of the Slavic tribes invaded the eastern Baltic tribe region and thus picked up lots of Baltic gene patterns. So what you think a modern Slavic population gets by picking up an ancient Lithuanian component could be a mix of just picking up very ancient greater regional hunter-gatherer as well as Baltic stuff picked up after the invasions and the latter would have nothing to do with some super early proto-Slavs, no?
    Super early proto-Slavs were very similar to the Baltic Bronze Age Trzciniec samples, which is not surprising, considering that Slavs probably derive from the Trzciniec culture one way or another.

    The two early Slavic genomes from Bohemia look very similar to the Trzciniec samples, and one might be basically indistinguishable.

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  6. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Super early proto-Slavs were very similar to the Baltic Bronze Age Trzciniec samples, which is not surprising, considering that Slavs probably derive from the Trzciniec culture one way or another.

    The two early Slavic genomes from Bohemia look very similar to the Trzciniec samples, and one might be basically indistinguishable.
    Are there actual aDNA samples from the Trzciniec culture itself (rather than from putative ancestor or derived cultures)?

  7. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Are there actual aDNA samples from the Trzciniec culture itself (rather than from putative ancestor or derived cultures)?
    could PL_N17 be Trzciniec culture?
    and Halberstadt(HAL_36) a later continuation of it in lusatian-urnfield?
    Geno2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA myOrigins 26ITA.PENINSULA 13GREECE&BALKANS 12SARDINIA 18GREATBRITAIN 14IRELAND 10CEN.EUROPE 8SCANDINAVIA DNA.Land 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN myHeritage 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN gencove 29NITALY 19EMED 15NBRITISLES 12SWEURO 10NCEURO 9SCANDINAVIA 6NEEURO GenePlaza 54.4NWEURO 37.6GREEK/ALBANIAN 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LivingDNA 70.7SGERMANIC 16.3TUSCANY 9.2N.ITALY 3.8SARDINIA

  8. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    could PL_N17 be Trzciniec culture?
    and Halberstadt(HAL_36) a later continuation of it in lusatian-urnfield?
    PL_N17 is too early for Trzciniec, judging by it's location it probably belonged to Iwno culture, which was one of the predecessors of Trzciniec.

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  10. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    If you could I would be most grateful.
    I started a project called Ancient Affinity Maps which shows genetic affinity to ancient West Eurasian populations. People who previously ordered my Ancient Ancestry Report, now get this for free. Your results below (if you want a map with a higher resolution or different colours, tell me):

    Firemonkey:

    https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...mplt=2&hml=KML

    BA-Unetice-4kya
    0.9722049002
    BB-Central-Euro-4kya
    0.9618422788
    NW-Celtic-Iron-Age
    0.9548613924
    NW-Germanic-LBA-EMA
    0.95189335
    CWC-Germany-4kya
    0.934032466
    Central-Germany-3kya
    0.9320490043
    BA-Ireland-4kya
    0.9208656828
    Tollense-3kya-Western
    0.8749356563
    IA-Wielbark-Western
    0.8335592239
    EBA-West-Poland-4kya
    0.7621762035
    IA-Hungary-IR1
    0.7498677423
    IA-Wielbark-Eastern
    0.694589257
    BA-Hungary-4kya
    0.6266121896
    LBA-Hungary-3kya
    0.6245702045
    South-Germany-3kya
    0.6174069798
    Iron-Age-LBA-Steppe
    0.4965518203
    EMA-Early-Slavic
    0.4927962141
    Tollense-3kya-Eastern
    0.4786356261
    NE-Euro-HG-5kya-7kya
    0.417525291
    Tollense-3kya-Baltic
    0.3760101895
    Iberia-5kya-3kya
    0.3291903962
    Baltic-RISE598-3kya
    0.2063878669
    Central-Med-4kya-5kya
    0.0646862842
    BA-Greece-3kya
    0.0502541292
    Armenia-3kya-4kya
    0.0464697098
    MN-Vinca-7kya
    -0.0106377069
    Anatolia-5kya-6kya
    -0.0907840449
    Levant-Egypt-BA-IA
    -0.1817491523
    Ancient-Iran
    -0.185466093

    ============

    Edit:

    I started another thread about this:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-Affinity-Maps
    Last edited by Tomenable; 11-19-2017 at 02:35 PM.

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  12. #98
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    Just bumping this thread again, do we have a clearer idea about how precisely so much BR2 affinity ended up in Slavs?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

  13. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Just bumping this thread again, do we have a clearer idea about how precisely so much BR2 affinity ended up in Slavs?
    Is his affinity not highest among Poles and much less so among equally or more Proto-Slavic-like Belarusians, Ukrainians and Russians what rather points to him or similar being a Central-Euro substrate among some Slavs.



    But i am not sure if the methodology here is super accurate because according to this he contributed more to people in Wales than to Ukrainians or Germans. On Global25 BR2 looks like a southeastern shifted DEU_Welzin sample so it is pretty likely that similar types populated the regon between BR2 and Tollense.

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  15. #100
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    Another interesting thing mtdna H44b is mainly among the Slavs
    Y-DNA: J2a-Z6055, originally reported as J2a, mtDNA: H44b, Lengyel LN, Hungary, 4800-4500 BCE. Source: Lipson et al. 2017.

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