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Thread: T1a1a-L208 from the Danube banks ( Ancient DNA )

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    T1a1a-L208 from the Danube banks ( Ancient DNA )

    Mesolithic and Early Neolithic samples from Europe with Scandinavian HG + Ukrainian HG + Aegean Farmer autosomal combination.

    This autosomal combination is found exclusively among ancient populations found around the Danube river. Also interesting to note the haplogroups found with this combination are R1b-V88, C1a2-V20 and T1a1a-L208. Curiously, R1b-V88 as well as T1a1a-L208 are both the lineages that migrated strongly deep into Africa, across the Sahel both and across all East Africa the last.

    Also remember that both have been found among the Tubus of Chad, who were found to be strongly related to a LBK-like ancestral population.

    Also I added the two samples with highest frequencies for both HG populations when combined with Aegean Farmer.

    Balkan HG vs Aegean Farmer.png

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    Interesting..so r v88 was a European farmer lineage that migrated to Africa ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresT View Post
    Mesolithic and Early Neolithic samples from Europe with Scandinavian HG + Ukrainian HG + Aegean Farmer autosomal combination.

    This autosomal combination is found exclusively among ancient populations found around the Danube river. Also interesting to note the haplogroups found with this combination are R1b-V88, C1a2-V20 and T1a1a-L208. Curiously, R1b-V88 as well as T1a1a-L208 are both the lineages that migrated strongly deep into Africa, across the Sahel both and across all East Africa the last.

    Also remember that both have been found among the Tubus of Chad, who were found to be strongly related to a LBK-like ancestral population.

    Also I added the two samples with highest frequencies for both HG populations when combined with Aegean Farmer.

    Balkan HG vs Aegean Farmer.png
    R1b definently migrated "strongly" into the Sahel but the same can't really be said about T-M70 in the Horn or South East Africa.Don't get me wrong it definitely migrated to these areas alongside the more dominant North African E1b1b lineages but the fact is that T-M70 has a minor presence in the Horn (most ethnic groups have under 10%) except Somalis due to a founder effect which is quite common among pastoralist groups.

    Also wasn't T-M70 found among the Neolithic Levantines? The fact the T-M70 is found among Neolithic farmers in Europe isn't too surprising then
    Last edited by drobbah; 08-13-2017 at 06:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    R1b definently migrated "strongly" into the Sahel but the same can't really be said about T-M70 in the Horn or South East Africa.Don't get me wrong it definitely migrated to these areas alongside the more dominant North African E1b1b lineages but the fact is that T-M70 has a minor presence in the Horn (most ethnic groups have under 10%) except Somalis due to a founder effect which is quite common among pastoralist groups.

    Also wasn't T-M70 found among the Neolithic Levantines? The fact the T-M70 is found among Neolithic farmers in Europe isn't too surprising then
    IIRC that levantine T1a1 was originally from north east Anatolia

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    R1b definently migrated "strongly" into the Sahel but the same can't really be said about T-M70 in the Horn or South East Africa.Don't get me wrong it definitely migrated to these areas alongside the more dominant North African E1b1b lineages but the fact is that T-M70 has a minor presence in the Horn (most ethnic groups have under 10%) except Somalis due to a founder effect which is quite common among pastoralist groups.

    Also wasn't T-M70 found among the Neolithic Levantines? The fact the T-M70 is found among Neolithic farmers in Europe isn't too surprising then

    There are none fact about T1a1a-L208 travelling alongside with E1b in ancient times, definitively there is nothing close to a "alongside". This "minor presence" that is because a major migration, changed absolutely the autosomal composition of most of the East African populations. Good example are the Somalis with T1a1a-L208 reaching 80-100% among Dir Clan to less among other non-Dir Clans but autosomally all of them are close to 50% Eurasians not because of a E1b impact ( who represents in fact the African half ) but to an autosomal impact via ancient T1a carriers. The Eurasian impact into East Africa is significant.
    Modern frequencies and distributions doesn't equal necessarily to Ancient Genetic landscapes nor how those ancient groups impacted one to another.

    Talking about a "dominant" E1b in North Africa is as significant as talking of "dominance" of D haplogroup in Andaman. As well as we can talk about dominance of whole E in most of the continental Africa.

    The T1a-M70 have not been found among ancient Early Neolithic Levantines but instead T1-L206 (x T1a1, T1a2, T1a3a) belonging to T1b.
    Last edited by AndresT; 08-14-2017 at 02:10 AM.

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    E1b populations not the same autosomally after Neolithic invasions

    E1b Nubian Mesolithic-Neolithic.png
    Wadi al-Halfa Nubian skull Mesolithic.png
    Last edited by AndresT; 08-14-2017 at 06:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresT View Post
    There are none fact about T1a1a-L208 travelling alongside with E1b in ancient times, definitively there is nothing close to a "alongside".
    T-M70 was spread by Cushite speakers who left the Red Sea hills 8-10k years ago which is why you can find it among the Iraqw of Tanzania.I have no doubt in my mind that T was one of the minor lineages among the Cushites just like V32 (other E-M215 lineages),A-M13 and J1.

    This "minor presence" that is because a major migration, changed absolutely the autosomal composition of most of the East African populations. Good example are the Somalis with T1a1a-L208 reaching 80-100% among Dir Clan to less among other non-Dir Clans but autosomally all of them are close to 50% Eurasians not because of a E1b impact ( who represents in fact the African half ) but to an autosomal impact via ancient T1a carriers. The Eurasian impact into East Africa is significant.
    I can't take this part seriously lol.Please tell me more about this "massive" T-M70 invasion


    Talking about a "dominant" E1b in North Africa is as significant as talking of "dominance" of D haplogroup in Andaman. As well as we can talk about dominance of whole E in most of the continental Africa.
    The fact is that wherever T-M70 is found in the Horn/East Africa the majority's of the lineages of those ethnic groups would be E1b1b (M78 for example) that originated up north.T-M70 simply tagged along in Egypt/Sudan nothing more.If you want to believe some fanciful tale of some pure Eurasian T-M70 folks venturing south and invading the Cushites and leaving no autosomal signature or language than you are truly delusional.
    Last edited by drobbah; 08-14-2017 at 02:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresT View Post
    E1b populations not the same autosomally after Neolithic invasions

    E1b Nubian Mesolithic-Neolithic.png
    You do realize the Natufians were E1b1b men?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    T-M70 was spread by Cushite speakers who left the Red Sea hills 8-10k years ago which is why you can find it among the Iraqw of Tanzania.I have no doubt in my mind that T was one of the minor lineages among the Cushites just like V32 (other E-M215 lineages),A-M13 and J1.


    I can't take this part seriously lol.Please tell me more about this "massive" T-M70 invasion


    The fact is that wherever T-M70 is found in the Horn/East Africa the majority's of the lineages of those ethnic groups would be E1b1b (M78 for example) that originated up north.T-M70 simply tagged along in Egypt/Sudan nothing more.If you want to believe some fanciful tale of some pure Eurasian T-M70 folks venturing south and invading the Cushites and leaving no autosomal signature or language than you are truly delusional.
    "T-M70 was spread by Cushite speakers who left the Red Sea hills 8-10k years ago which is why you can find it among the Iraqw of Tanzania."

    Absolutly fantasy. Do you have none fact about this. This is unsupported by T1a1a-L208 diversity in East Africa.

    "I have no doubt in my mind that T was one of the minor lineages among the Cushites just like V32"

    I have no doubt about your nationalistic beliefs. But nor my thoughts nor your thoughts means nothing here. You have no proofs about all of your claims.

    "I can't take this part seriously lol.Please tell me more about this "massive" T-M70 invasion"

    Better wait for Ancient DNA and see where come from the 50% Eurasian autosomal DNA I can sure you that E1b is not the source
    Last edited by AndresT; 08-14-2017 at 06:32 AM.

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    I realize that Natufians lived a bit North than Nubians and intermingled a bit more with Eurasian populations too. Anyway, If you are trying to tell us nothing about Cranial differences, yes there are subsaharian-like features among Natufians when compared with Neolithic invaders.

    EW H4 Natufian 20-25ans male ( El Wadi ).png
    H8 Natufian 25-35 ans male.png
    H17t-18t Natufian.png

    Do you have an interesting study about this: Noreen von Cramon-Taubadel et al 2013
    Last edited by AndresT; 08-14-2017 at 06:29 AM.

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