Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: Hablogroup R-ZZ12_1

  1. #11
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    11,426
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    R1b-FGC36981
    mtDNA
    U5a2c3a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesús Dapena View Post
    Ravai:

    Aha! Excellent, I had never heard the term "recurrent mutation" before! I think this is an important cautionary tale when dealing with genetic genealogy ...

    Jesús
    That issue is fairly easily dealt with, however, by looking at the pedigree of the SNP's leading up to the recurrent one. If a man is derived for all the SNP's characterizing R1b-DF27, then, for him, the recurrent mutation is within DF27.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  2. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,730
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA
    T2f3

    Just in case this has gone below the radar, the recurrent SNP (downstream of both DF27 and ZZ12) is ZS4583.

    The problem with ZZ12 (that makes YFull and some other hidebound navel-gazers omit it from their particular Y tree) is that it's on a palindrome; so it can disappear, usually only half of it (but that's the half that has been easiest to read, in others) because of a subsequent RecLOH event. This does not constitute "instability" as such, but it messes with their algorithms something fierce.

    There may be, at present, members of some subclade a couple thousand years younger than ZZ12, in whom ZZ12 can't be detected. But in their 4th millennium BC patrilineal ancestor, at that time, it could be. It just went away, more recently; this didn't erase the rest of their family tree, or kill anybody.

    Unless I'm misinformed, I believe all of the "problematic" ZZ SNPs named by Alex Williamson (YTree dot net) are on palindromes. So, by the way, are DYS385a-b and some other popular STR loci, that are subject to RecLOH events.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to razyn For This Useful Post:

     wlk (03-30-2018)

  4. #13
    Junior Member
    Posts
    3
    Sex

    rms2: I am not sure that I understand what you are saying with "for him, the recurrent mutation is within DF27". I assume that what you mean is that I would still be DF27 from a haplogroup standpoint, even though I do have the ZS4583 mutation --which makes it LOOK AS IF I am in the L21 > > L513 > > etc. haplotree branch. I have now ordered the "R1b - S5982&L193" SNP Pack from FTDNA to check that I am NOT L21 > > L513 > > etc. After this is confirmed negative (as I expect it will), then I will order an appropriate SNP Pack that will check if I am (as I expect) DF27 >> etc.
    Last edited by Jesús Dapena; 03-18-2018 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #14
    Registered Users
    Posts
    99
    Sex
    Location
    Madrid
    Ethnicity
    Celtiberian+Vascon+Jew
    Nationality
    Spain
    Y-DNA
    FGC81931
    mtDNA
    K1b1d1a*

    Spain Portugal France Star of David
    Hi there, Jesus:
    .
    I allready sent to u a post under Iberian Peninsula project that might explain everything. Just for ur guidance it happened to me the same when some day after taking my BIG Y dna test FTDNA confirmed that my terminal haplogroup was ZS4583. The next day it was changed again to ZZ12_1 once the M343 n M269 backbone pack results were included in my .VCF file. It´s just a recurrent mutation and due to I tested negative for the parent clades starting with L21 no chance to be downstream there. We will be in touch from now on if u like now that we share the same haplogroup under block ZZ12_1. Take care
    .
    Martin

  6. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    99
    Sex
    Location
    Madrid
    Ethnicity
    Celtiberian+Vascon+Jew
    Nationality
    Spain
    Y-DNA
    FGC81931
    mtDNA
    K1b1d1a*

    Spain Portugal France Star of David
    Thks David. Everything is clear now. Take care
    .
    Martin

  7. #16
    Registered Users
    Posts
    99
    Sex
    Location
    Madrid
    Ethnicity
    Celtiberian+Vascon+Jew
    Nationality
    Spain
    Y-DNA
    FGC81931
    mtDNA
    K1b1d1a*

    Spain Portugal France Star of David
    Hi there, guy:
    .
    Do u mean that recurrent mutations never should be disregarded even though you tested negative for the parent clades? I mean you have got several recurrent mutations that have ntg to do with the parent clades as no conexion at all. For instance you have got one under I1 haplogroup and another one under L21 but you are downstream DF27. Both of them have to be taken into account as might explain your ancestral origin? Is it possible that the same subclade could be under two different haplogroups? Sry if this is a stupid question
    .
    Martin

  8. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,022
    Sex
    Location
    France
    Ethnicity
    Franchouillard
    Y-DNA
    G2a2b2a1b1a2a1-S2808
    mtDNA
    H2a2a1

    Normandie Wallonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Magovalle View Post
    Hi there, guy:
    Is it possible that the same subclade could be under two different haplogroups? Sry if this is a stupid question
    .Martin
    Certainly not. A recurrent mutation could be found in different subclades and each subclade has its own phylogenetic lineage upstairs in the haplogroup containing the subclade.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to palamede For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (03-28-2018)

  10. #18
    Registered Users
    Posts
    99
    Sex
    Location
    Madrid
    Ethnicity
    Celtiberian+Vascon+Jew
    Nationality
    Spain
    Y-DNA
    FGC81931
    mtDNA
    K1b1d1a*

    Spain Portugal France Star of David
    Hi there, palamede:
    .
    Thks a lot for ur comment and clarification on the issue. Take care

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-16-2015, 02:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •