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Thread: Steppe Admixture in Calcolithic Anatolia?: an MDLP23b Perspective

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    Steppe Admixture in Calcolithic Anatolia?: an MDLP23b Perspective

    So I found using MDLP K23b a tad more useful for gauging steppe ancestry over at Gedmatch than MDLP K16 as the latter tends to assign steppe ancestry to early European and Anatolian farmers which theoretically shouldn't be there. Here's Anatolia's Neolithic through this run:



    Pretty typical results for this time and region. Now let's see how Barcın Hyk looks at c. 4000 BC aka the Anatolian Calcolithic:



    Notice the appearance of Ancestral Altaic, South Central Asian and increase in Caucasian? Only related components missing are AmeriIndian and Euro/Western HG. Why focus on this specimen? Here's what David Anthony had to say about the formation of the IE Anatolian branch within area of interest:






    The Calcolithic Anatolian was female and so has only mtDNA which is of course useless considering that the Suvorovo migration was of male elites from the steppe as interpreted by Telegin. So was this woman descended from one of the males of R1 clades associated with IE migration? Did she have Suvorovo ancestors who prayed to the rising sun upon riding to the shore?
    Last edited by geomattica; 08-25-2017 at 12:55 AM.

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    I'm not saying Anatolia Chalcolithic doesn't have steppe-like mixture, I'm not entirely sure. But what you have there does not do anything to show it. I'd assume any ancient Iranian samples run through that calculator would show a lot of that South-central-asian component, and Anatolia Chalcolithic has some Iran Chalcolithic like ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I'm not saying Anatolia Chalcolithic doesn't have steppe-like mixture, I'm not entirely sure. But what you have there does not do anything to show it. I'd assume any ancient Iranian samples run through that calculator would show a lot of that South-central-asian component, and Anatolia Chalcolithic has some Iran Chalcolithic like ancestry.
    Well it does show it (or something like it? Fuzzy logic applies here to this approach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic). However your point perhaps explains why the Euro Hunter gatherer component is missing. I know the Iranian Neolithic was very influential but on the other hand this site is pretty close to the Balkans. Also when I run the Iranian Neolithic through MDLP 23b I get no ANE. It only begins to appear in Iran's Calcolithic on that run and apparently there is difficulty in assessing how real the ANE would be to Iran around these times. And some of the literature I presented suggests Steppe/IE migration would be fair game during the Copper Age.

    Would be nice to get a little more Y-DNA from around Anatolia during this time.
    Last edited by geomattica; 08-25-2017 at 04:15 PM.

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    Barcın "Calcolihic"

    Where on earth die you get the data for a Barcın "Calcolihic"??
    Mathieson 2018, 2018 has only Neolithic, copied by Olalde, Wang, and others.
    This would be really interesting for the possibility of IE-Anatolians having immigrated via the Caucasus, instead across the Boporus.
    Archlingo

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    Quote Originally Posted by archlingo View Post
    Where on earth die you get the data for a Barcın "Calcolihic"??
    Mathieson 2018, 2018 has only Neolithic, copied by Olalde, Wang, and others.
    This would be really interesting for the possibility of IE-Anatolians having immigrated via the Caucasus, instead across the Boporus.
    Archlingo
    It's from Lazaridis et al. 2016:

    I1584; 3943-3708 BC; Barcın, Turkey; Anatolia_Chalcolithic; female; mtDNA: K1a17

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    Quote Originally Posted by geomattica View Post
    Well it does show it (or something like it? Fuzzy logic applies here to this approach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic). However your point perhaps explains why the Euro Hunter gatherer component is missing. I know the Iranian Neolithic was very influential but on the other hand this site is pretty close to the Balkans. Also when I run the Iranian Neolithic through MDLP 23b I get no ANE. It only begins to appear in Iran's Calcolithic on that run and apparently there is difficulty in assessing how real the ANE would be to Iran around these times. And some of the literature I presented suggests Steppe/IE migration would be fair game during the Copper Age.
    I'll have to be brutal here. Looking for steppe ancestry with the calcs and so called ancient genomes at GEDmatch is a lousy way of doing things.

    You really need to test these things directly, and with a couple of different methods. For instance...

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/...ge-levant.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I'll have to be brutal here. Looking for steppe ancestry with the calcs and so called ancient genomes at GEDmatch is a lousy way of doing things.

    You really need to test these things directly, and with a couple of different methods. For instance...

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/...ge-levant.html
    Likewise I have to: I've visited that site many times since I've made this thread and my discussion here with Kale and on another thread already cleared things up regarding better tests to use. So your post being illuminating at this point is nearly 2 years too late.
    Last edited by geomattica; 07-15-2019 at 08:41 AM.

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