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Thread: Map of Z138 and Z59

  1. #1
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    Map of Z138 and Z59

    I created a map of Z138 and Z59, the two branches of the West Germans of I1 : https://www.google.fr/maps/d/edit?hl...8450781262&z=5

    Give me your reading of the map.

    Me, I have the impression that Z138 is slightly more southerly while Z59 is slightly more northerly.

    Attachment 18405

    Attachment 18406

    Attachment 18407

    Attachment 18408
    V2 K15 (Average France) => North Sea : 27.46 (28.25) - Atlantic : 21.26 (26.05) - West Med : 19.05 (15.53) - Baltic : 9.17 (8.22) - Eastern Euro : 8.80 (6.32) - West Asian : 6.31 (4.66) - East Med : 4.85 (6.72) - Red Sea : 2.08 (2.83) - Amerindian : 1.02 (0.20)

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     JMcB (08-30-2017),  merowinger10 (02-23-2018),  Power77 (08-29-2017),  spruithean (08-29-2017)

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    Interesting, I like the mapping of these two clades. It still seems as though I-Z59 and I-Z138 followed the various Germanic migrations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Interesting, I like the mapping of these two clades. It still seems as though I-Z59 and I-Z138 followed the various Germanic migrations?
    Indeed.
    V2 K15 (Average France) => North Sea : 27.46 (28.25) - Atlantic : 21.26 (26.05) - West Med : 19.05 (15.53) - Baltic : 9.17 (8.22) - Eastern Euro : 8.80 (6.32) - West Asian : 6.31 (4.66) - East Med : 4.85 (6.72) - Red Sea : 2.08 (2.83) - Amerindian : 1.02 (0.20)

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    Nicely done!

    I came across this recently which may be of interest to some. You can isolate the subclades by unclicking the various boxes. Personally, I think your format is far more attractive.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...8160000005&z=2

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Nicely done!

    I came across this recently which may be of interest to some. You can isolate the subclades by unclicking the various boxes. Personally, I think your format is far more attractive.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...8160000005&z=2
    Excellent!

    I've been searching for something like this. It is certainly interesting seeing where each clade below I1-Z140 is dispersed. I find it interesting that so far from what I can see Y7198 is sort of focused around Ulster-Galloway-Northwest England, perhaps better dubbed Irish Sea? Or am I missing any new finds?

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    Now, you can see my map on MyMaps.
    V2 K15 (Average France) => North Sea : 27.46 (28.25) - Atlantic : 21.26 (26.05) - West Med : 19.05 (15.53) - Baltic : 9.17 (8.22) - Eastern Euro : 8.80 (6.32) - West Asian : 6.31 (4.66) - East Med : 4.85 (6.72) - Red Sea : 2.08 (2.83) - Amerindian : 1.02 (0.20)

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    I wonder if the high numbers in Great Britain are significant of some type of migration pattern or if it's just a result of more people getting tested there?

    I also think that these subclades are older than any Germanic migrations so the term West Germanic might be a bit misleading. I think these subclades can be found in North, West, and East Germanic tribes hence why we see samples from Ireland to Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I wonder if the high numbers in Great Britain are significant of some type of migration pattern or if it's just a result of more people getting tested there?

    I also think that these subclades are older than any Germanic migrations so the term West Germanic might be a bit misleading. I think these subclades can be found in North, West, and East Germanic tribes hence why we see samples from Ireland to Russia.
    I've wondered this myself. Perhaps it could be testing bias with some level of migration pattern that as you say could pre-date West Germanic movement? Perhaps something being overlooked?

    The subclades of DF29 are definitely not restricted to North (L22), West (Z58) and East (Z63) Germanic groups, there is definitely overlap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Excellent!

    I've been searching for something like this. It is certainly interesting seeing where each clade below I1-Z140 is dispersed. I find it interesting that so far from what I can see Y7198 is sort of focused around Ulster-Galloway-Northwest England, perhaps better dubbed Irish Sea? Or am I missing any new finds?
    At this point, it does seem to be clustering in the Northern British Isles. Which is what Hartley - the I-Z140 administrator believes also. Whether we can be more precise than that, I don't know. It's probably too early to tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I wonder if the high numbers in Great Britain are significant of some type of migration pattern or if it's just a result of more people getting tested there?

    I also think that these subclades are older than any Germanic migrations so the term West Germanic might be a bit misleading. I think these subclades can be found in North, West, and East Germanic tribes hence why we see samples from Ireland to Russia.
    I suspect there may be some testing bias involved. If the Germans and the Danes tested the way the Swedes and the Brits do (including the British diaspora), that map might look entirely different.

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