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Thread: Libyan GEDmtch kits

  1. #11
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    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 32.29
    2 Red_Sea 28.17
    3 West_Med 12.08
    4 Northeast_African 11.7
    5 Sub-Saharan 7.67
    6 North_Sea 2.24
    7 Baltic 1.97
    8 Atlantic 1.68
    9 Amerindian 1.5
    10 Oceanian 0.63
    11 Eastern_Euro 0.07

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Egyptian 13.24
    2 Bedouin 16.68
    3 Algerian 17.4
    4 Tunisian 17.84
    5 Moroccan 18.63
    6 Saudi 19.41
    7 Mozabite_Berber 20.52
    8 Jordanian 22.15
    9 Palestinian 22.93
    10 Yemenite_Jewish 23.18
    11 Libyan_Jewish 23.27
    12 Tunisian_Jewish 25.25
    13 Syrian 25.89
    14 Samaritan 26.78
    15 Algerian_Jewish 27.08
    16 Sephardic_Jewish 27.78
    17 Italian_Jewish 28.22
    18 Ashkenazi 29.15
    19 Lebanese_Muslim 29.43
    20 Lebanese_Christian 30.13

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 51.2% Moroccan + 48.8% Saudi @ 7.93
    2 53.4% Algerian + 46.6% Saudi @ 8.13
    3 51.7% Saudi + 48.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 8.32
    4 52.8% Tunisian + 47.2% Saudi @ 9.39
    5 57% Moroccan + 43% Yemenite_Jewish @ 9.69
    6 59.7% Algerian + 40.3% Yemenite_Jewish @ 10.28
    7 80.1% Saudi + 19.9% Sandawe @ 10.39
    8 53.9% Mozabite_Berber + 46.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 10.44
    9 82.2% Saudi + 17.8% Ethiopian_Anuak @ 10.58
    10 79.8% Saudi + 20.2% Maasai @ 10.6
    11 82.4% Saudi + 17.6% Sudanese @ 10.65
    12 82.2% Saudi + 17.8% Hadza @ 10.98
    13 83.4% Saudi + 16.6% San @ 11.21
    14 83% Saudi + 17% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 11.34
    15 69.7% Egyptian + 30.3% Moroccan @ 11.62
    16 59.7% Tunisian + 40.3% Yemenite_Jewish @ 11.62
    17 69.1% Egyptian + 30.9% Algerian @ 11.98
    18 55.1% Bedouin + 44.9% Moroccan @ 11.98
    19 75.4% Egyptian + 24.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 12.09
    20 85.2% Saudi + 14.8% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 12.24

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lukaszM For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (09-29-2018),  kingjohn (09-30-2018)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    According Erik86,all the ancient hellenistic world should have kept mycenean dna remains of that period
    So cyrenaica libyans should displays significant Italian,West mes iberian
    In k36
    Please don't put words in my mouth.

    And if indeed there was substantial Greek colonization in Cyrenaica, then there should be some evidence of it (like elevated Balkan and East Med).
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Please don't put words in my mouth.

    And if indeed there was substantial Greek colonization in Cyrenaica, then there should be some evidence of it (like elevated Balkan and East Med).
    They don't. In academic Cirenaica Libyans East-Balkan and Italian is close to null, Iberian few percent only. East-Med is quite high but it is because of Egypt proximity, which has more.
    Last edited by lukaszM; 09-29-2018 at 11:57 PM.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to lukaszM For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (09-30-2018)

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    They don't. In academic Cirenaica Libyans East-Balkan and Italian is close to null, Iberian few percent only. East-Med is quite high but it is because of Egypt proximity, which has more.
    So it's the same case as Copts - I wonder why in those regions, as opposed Magna Graecia and Asia Minor - there was no Greek genetic contribution.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  7. #15
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    Here are 3 Cyrenaica Libyans K36 results
    We can clearly see they are strongly admixed (around 40%) with Arabian Banu Salim tribes who settled there over the 11th century.
    No aegean admixture spotted.

    #1
    Arabian 26,18
    Arménien 0,05
    Central African 0,4
    East African 0,4
    East med 8,5
    Iberian 7,17
    Italian 6,12
    Near_Eastern 18,65
    North_African 10,69
    Northeast_African 15,89
    West_African 2,63
    West_Med 2,26

    #2
    Arabian 27,05
    Arménien 2,52
    East African 5,02
    East med 10,07
    Iberian 3,12
    Italian 6,12
    Near_Eastern 25,21
    North_African 9,14
    North_Caucasian 0,13
    Northeast_African 10,47
    South_Central_Asian 1,93
    West_African 2,59
    West_Med 2,54

    #3
    Arabian 17,01
    Arménien 0
    East African 1,76
    East med 11,11
    Iberian 4,62
    Italian 6,9
    Near_Eastern 20,36
    North_African 18,07
    North_Caucasian 0
    Northeast_African 13,95
    South_Central_Asian 1,93
    West_African 1,87
    West_Med 4,16

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    Here are 3 Cyrenaica Libyans K36 results
    We can clearly see they are strongly admixed (around 40%) with Arabian Banu Salim tribes who settled there over the 11th century.
    No aegean admixture spotted.

    #1
    Arabian 26,18
    Arménien 0,05
    Central African 0,4
    East African 0,4
    East med 8,5
    Iberian 7,17
    Italian 6,12
    Near_Eastern 18,65
    North_African 10,69
    Northeast_African 15,89
    West_African 2,63
    West_Med 2,26

    #2
    Arabian 27,05
    Arménien 2,52
    East African 5,02
    East med 10,07
    Iberian 3,12
    Italian 6,12
    Near_Eastern 25,21
    North_African 9,14
    North_Caucasian 0,13
    Northeast_African 10,47
    South_Central_Asian 1,93
    West_African 2,59
    West_Med 2,54

    #3
    Arabian 17,01
    Arménien 0
    East African 1,76
    East med 11,11
    Iberian 4,62
    Italian 6,9
    Near_Eastern 20,36
    North_African 18,07
    North_Caucasian 0
    Northeast_African 13,95
    South_Central_Asian 1,93
    West_African 1,87
    West_Med 4,16
    Actually the only North African population to show some possible affinity with East Med populations and Levantines are Djerba island Tunisians. The rest of the population is pretty much very similar to Berbers with some signs of Arabic admixtures.
    Last edited by Erikl86; 09-30-2018 at 07:49 AM.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Please don't put words in my mouth.
    No need to be haughty and peremptory .
    and by the bye, as a brilliant scholar you seem to be,you have to accept to be quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    And if indeed there was substantial Greek colonization in Cyrenaica, then there should be some evidence of it (like elevated Balkan and East Med)
    So it's the same case as Copts - I wonder why in those regions, as opposed Magna Graecia and Asia Minor - there was no Greek genetic contribution.
    Maybe it had never been a significant greek input in the levant too
    if we check any neolithic and bronze age Levant sample,
    we see that they already display around 20% (total of both) of italian and West med componants which are two major ones in the minoan and mycenean samples.
    , so greek admixture dont come from these 2 categories.

    As to East balkan
    I checked many and many Chrisitan Lebanese and Christian Palestinian from Bethleem in gedmatch.all I can say is that East Balkan average is close to zero.

  10. #18
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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    No need to be haughty and peremptory .
    and by the bye, as a brilliant scholar you seem to be,you have to accept to be quoted.
    There's a big difference between quoting me, then writing your own summary that concludes what you want my ideas to be portrayed as, especially considering you attach to that evidence that in your mind refute those ideas, thus the only reason for mentioning me is to ridicule the theories you think I claim by wrongly presenting them.

    As for me being a scholar - being that I share a lot of respect to the academic work being done in the field, until my name would actually appear on one of those peer-reviewed studies, please refrain from calling me that (although again, since you seem to be in disagreement with me, I pretty much assume you are being a cynic. If I'm wrong, then thanks for the compliment but it's unnecessary).

    Maybe it had never been a significant greek input in the levant too
    if we check any neolithic and bronze age Levant sample,
    we see that they already display around 20% (total of both) of italian and West med componants which are two major ones in the minoan and mycenean samples.
    , so greek admixture dont come from these 2 categories.

    As to East balkan
    I checked many and many Chrisitan Lebanese and Christian Palestinian from Bethleem in gedmatch.all I can say is that East Balkan average is close to zero.
    And just few weeks ago, a Christian Palestinian from Bethlehem provided K36 results of a fellow Christian Palestinians with elevated Balkan.

    Also, as I was explaining to another member of this site in a rather heated argument few weeks ago, don't trust too much GEDmatch alone. Look at these results of the Mycenaean kit's results:



    Mycenaean I9006

     
    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 37.13
    2 West_Med 31.44
    3 West_Asian 13.69
    4 North_Atlantic 9.09
    5 Red_Sea 3.74
    6 Baltic 3.51
    7 Amerindian 0.86
    8 Oceanian 0.55




    Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian 1.19
    Armenian 5.28
    Basque -
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro -
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 7.53
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro -
    East_Med 18.85
    Eastern_Euro -
    Fennoscandian -
    French 1.14
    Iberian 8.02

    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 29.82
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 10.64
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic -
    North_Caucasian 3.64
    North_Sea -
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian 1.43
    West_Med 12.47



    Mycenaean I9033

     
    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_Med 31.49
    2 East_Med 27.62
    3 North_Atlantic 18.64
    4 West_Asian 12.51
    5 Northeast_African 3.44
    6 Red_Sea 2.06
    7 Baltic 1.26
    8 Sub-Saharan 1
    9 East_Asian 0.87
    10 Oceanian 0.87
    11 Siberian 0.24


    Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

    Population
    Amerindian 0.19
    Arabian -
    Armenian 1.88
    Basque 0.97
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro -
    East_African -
    East_Asian 0.14
    East_Balkan 8.11
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro -
    East_Med 13.03
    Eastern_Euro -
    Fennoscandian -
    French 1.71
    Iberian 10.74

    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 27.01
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 3.59
    North_African 1.50
    North_Atlantic 1.70
    North_Caucasian 3.37
    North_Sea 0.19
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic 0.65
    Pygmy 2.23
    Siberian -
    South_Asian 1.78
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian 4.26
    West_Med 16.97



    Mycenaean I9010

     
    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 36.76
    2 West_Med 31.88
    3 North_Atlantic 10.53
    4 West_Asian 8.83
    5 Red_Sea 8.06
    6 Baltic 2.78
    7 Oceanian 0.87
    8 Sub-Saharan 0.3


    Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian 1.84
    Armenian 10.53
    Basque 3.75
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro -
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 5.24
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro -
    East_Med 16.04
    Eastern_Euro -
    Fennoscandian -
    French 2.38
    Iberian 3.55

    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 30.85
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 9.15
    North_African 2.22
    North_Atlantic -
    North_Caucasian -
    North_Sea -
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 14.44


    Judging by those results, I need to assume that Mycnaeans had French, Iberian, and North African admixtures, right? Well not exactly, if I'd quote Mathew Brit's excellent into on GEDmatch K36 calculator and results reading:

    we need to keep in mind that the percentages given on GEDmatch are also not meant to be taken in the same literal manner as commercial tests are. In other words, due to the way the GEDmatch tests work, getting 15% (or whatever) of something, say Iberian, does not mean the same thing as getting 15% of that category on 23andMe or other commercial tests. GEDmatch admixture calculators are saying that 15% of your genome is similar to the Iberian reference population in the test, and “Iberian” may not mean the current Iberian population. For this percentage to be “meaningful” in terms of Iberian ancestry in the way we think of it, it would have to be significantly higher than what your primary ancestry normally scores on that test. This is different from a 23andMe percentage, which is meant to be taken much more at face value.
    Same goes for the rest of the categories.

    I recommend you'd read the entire thing:
    https://mpbritt.com/eurogenes-k36-ma...mixture-tests/

    So instead of literally putting all our evidence for our cases on GEDmatch, also use peer reviewed studies to validate or invalidate your ideas. Also, please, not only autosomal - use uniparental evidence (or lack of).

    For example, in Haber et al. (2016), he suggests that the difference between Bronze Age Canaanites and modern day Lebanese is Steppe admixture (roughly 7%), which, quoting him, they could have arrived not directly from the Steppe, but from either Assyrians, Persians - or Hellenistic Macedonians:

    It is important to note here that Bronze Age Steppe populations used in the model need not be the actual ancestral mixing populations, and the admixture could have involved a population which was itself admixed with a Steppe-like ancestry population. The time period of this mixture overlaps with the decline of the Egyptian empire and its domination over the Levant, leading some of the coastal cities to thrive, including Sidon and Tyre, which established at this time a successful maritime trade network throughout the Mediterranean. The decline in Egypt’s power was also followed by a succession of conquests of the region by distant populations such as the Assyrians, Persians, and Macedonians, any or all of whom could have carried the Steppe-like ancestry observed here in the Levant after the Bronze Age.
    https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S...code=ajhg-site
    Last edited by Erikl86; 09-30-2018 at 08:41 AM.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Actually the only North African population to show some possible affinity with East Med populations and Levantines are Djerba island Tunisians. The rest of the population is pretty much very similar to Berbers with some signs of Arabic admixtures.

    Djerbian Tunisian really ?
    I would like to see their K36,because I saw several coastal Tunisian (Sfax,Sousse,Monastir) for who I supposed them to be the most Levantine , their total West Asian part (Armenian, West Caucasus,North Caucasus) is 3%(vs 15%for Christian Lebanese),that mean they could have got 20% of their ancestry from Phoenicians /Cathaginians.
    Nevertheless that West Asian part could also come from turkish and causasian soldiers callerd koulouglis who would have been settled in number in these regions over the ottoman périod.
    Paradoxically,Tunis area which should be the most cathaginian admixed, ses a very low West Asian allele rate.

    Nb: East med,Near estern and Arabian alleles are not relevant to be directly compared in the case of the North african Populations between Levantines.
    Because pure berbers populations owe these 3 ancestry since neolithic and paleolithic time.(ses Natufian/ibero maurusian connexion)

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