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Thread: Could Finnish/NorthRussian DNA be the key to Scottish vs Ulster Irish heritage ?

  1. #1
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    Question Could Finnish/NorthRussian DNA be the key to Scottish vs Ulster Irish heritage ?

    Hello,

    A significant amount , it seems, of knowledgeable users, like Sktibo, say that populations like the Ulster Irish and Scottish are too close to distinguish with current commercial DNA tests. However, I read that unlike the rest of the U.K. and unlike Ireland : Scottish residents have the highest amount of Finnish/Northwest Russian (1.31% on average) heritage, which is explained by their geographic proximity.

    AncestryDNA has me as :

    52% Irish
    37% British
    6% Scandinavian
    >1% Finnish

    etc...

    Which could be either a Scottish or Ulster Irish result but dna.land has me as 1.8% Finnish, Gencove has me as 2% NorthEastern European (one of the sample populations is Finnish), and Eurogenes K36 has my FennoScandian @9.68 so my Norse score could be like 6%-7% or whatnot and the rest of the Fennoscandian Finnish.

    So , can I infer , based on this information, that I am indeed Scottish-American and not Irish-American ? Also, if this is the case then can this be the key to differentiating the populations rather than having to wait for the new Irish DNA project to be subsumed by LivingDNA ?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.
    Last edited by Teutorigos; 09-15-2017 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    Hello,

    A significant amount , it seems, of knowledgeable users, like Sktibo, say that populations like the Ulster Irish and Scottish are too close to distinguish with current commercial DNA tests. However, I read that unlike the rest of the U.K. and unlike Ireland : Scottish residents have the highest amount of Finnish/Northwest Russian (1.31% on average) heritage, which is explained by their geographic proximity.

    AncestryDNA has me as :

    52% Irish
    37% British
    6% Scandinavian
    >1% Finnish

    etc...

    Which could be either a Scottish or Ulster Irish result but dna.land has me as 1.8% Finnish, Gencove has me as 2% NorthEastern European (one of the sample populations is Finnish), and Eurogenes K36 has my FennoScandian @9.68 so my Norse score could be like 6%-7% or whatnot and the rest of the Fennoscandian Finnish.

    So , can I infer , based on this information, that I am indeed Scottish-American and not Irish-American ? Also, if this is the case then can this be the key to differentiating the populations rather than having to wait for the new Irish DNA project to be subsumed by LivingDNA ?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.
    I would think your paper trail would tell you who was Scottish and who was Irish? I would imagine like many Americans you are some mixture of British+Irish+Northwest European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I would think your paper trail would tell you who was Scottish and who was Irish? I would imagine like many Americans you are some mixture of British+Irish+Northwest European.
    Right, I am a mix of English, Scottish, Irish and High German(ic) via Alsace-Lorraine France. However , the British themselves are mutts and Mary Queen of Scots was part French and her house of Guise was in Lorraine France. There is a cross of Lorraine statue in Scotland too. I am basically a Celto-Germanic mix and that is what the British are. Now, I don't literally believe I am Scottish or British I am just looking for my closest ethnic analogue in Europe. It is not like I am some mix that does not exist in Europe currently or historically e.g. Portugese, Polish, British, Italian and Russian or something like that.

    Basically, I believe there has to be a single population, in Europe, I genetically cluster closest too; that would be my ethnic analogue.
    Last edited by Teutorigos; 09-15-2017 at 01:02 PM.

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    What is the Oracle trend on gedmatch? Perhaps you could tally those results and get a rough estimate?

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    Most of my family picks up 1-2% "Finnish/NW Russian" on Ancestry.com. Mostly English but got 8% Scottish Highland & Northern Ireland on LivingDNA. 1.8% Irish per them but they undervalue Irish components currently.

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    (I) has the second highest haplogroup frequency in Finland. But it seems to to be noise. In Finland (I) has a different migration route, these men seem to be from the South as opposed to (N) haplogroup who migrated from Russia and the Lake Ladoga
    region

  7. #7
    Irish-Scottish [Continental - Alsace, Bavarian, & Parisian French] American cousin - DNALand 12.7% Finnish, Genecove 16% NE European, & k36 Fennoscandian 11.9. Mind you most of his ancestry is Highlands Scottish and there are blatantly Scandinavian-rooted names in the distant family tree.

    But compared to him I wouldn't infer much given as the Irish did have Scandinavian, and thus Fennoscandian, settlement along the eastern seaboard.

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    I think not directly, but it may reflect inflated Norse ancestry in Scots.

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    Why should Scottish have Finnish ancestry ? Probably these are remains of ancient hunter gatherers ancestry ?

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    Maybe the Finland/NW Russia category does tell us something, who knows. I don't fully trust Ancestry DNA's studies, but I do trust Don Felipe's collection of Ancestry DNA results. I hope that he'll be able to obtain DNA test results from Scottish individuals and compare them to the Irish results he has - that would be a great starting point to see if there is something to this IMO

    Edit: Looks like there are some here: (see Online Spreadsheet with European AncestryDNA results)
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-across-Europe

    The Scottish samples don't appear to have a Finland / NW Russia percentage consistently. I count three Scottish and one N. Irish, none of which have any Finland percentage. Interestingly, two NW English samples have the highest Finnish percentage: one with 3% and the other with 4%.
    Last edited by sktibo; 09-30-2017 at 08:12 AM.
    Flags represent known or paper trail ancestry from greatest to least:
    England, Scotland, Austro-Hungarian Empire, (Galicia Poland) French-Canadian, and Dutch American settlers.

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