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Thread: DF73+ (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534>DF73)

  1. #1
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    Question DF73+ (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534>DF73)

    What do we know about DF73? I couldn't find it on ISOGG's R Tree page, but I see that it is listed as under investigation in ISOGG's SNP Index.

    Anyway, there are just two positives in the R-L21 Plus Project: Saldaña, kit 58625, and Rodríguez, kit 143916. Both of them are Z253+ Z2534+, and both of them are of Spanish ancestry. I have tentatively created a DF73+ category at the R-L21 Plus Project, listing the DF73 pedigree as L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534>DF73. Is there any reason to think otherwise? Neither kit has been tested for Z2185.

    Interesting that of 17 DF73 results in the R-L21 Plus Project, the only two positives are both Spanish.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Z2185 and L643 tests are on order for Saldaña and Rodríguez, with the expectation that those tests will be negative. DF73 will be added to the ISOGG tree as soon as those results are available; at the current rate of test returns, that may be a couple months. Expectation is L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534>DF73, as Rich noted.

    DF73 was originally found in two 1000 Genomes samples,
    HG01503 and HG01675 (both IBS, Iberian from Spain).

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     rms2 (08-10-2013)

  4. #3
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    This was posted on the L1066+ thread but should probably be discussed here:

    "Well iberian Z253 appears to be in it's own clade right? Namely DF73. My feeling is that Z253 is old and thus has a widespread distrubition. It wouldn't surprise me if it first arose in what is now France and then spread outwards from there (Southbound into Iberia, Northbound into Britain and Ireland)"

    We now know from Big Y and additional Sanger tests that DF73 is a terminal SNP on the following Z253 branch: Z253>Z2534>Z2189>DF73.

    The Iberian clade of Z253 is marked by Z2189 and a number of other SNPs which are currently phylogenetically equivalent to Z2189: Z2190, Z2195 (aka S934), Z2197 (aka S935), Z2198, Z2201 (aka S939) and Z2202.

    Below is a list copied from Mike Walsh's spreadsheet of those who are expected to be positive for Z2189. All appear to be of paternal Iberian ancestry.

    Expected to be Z2189+ DF73-

    f275531 Garcia
    fN93033 Amuchástegui
    f58857 Archuleta
    f128223 Calzada
    f66434 Davila
    f82247 Garcia
    f152157 Lopez
    f157776 Manchego
    f67597 Robles
    f167768 Romero
    f46334 Sampedro
    f73233 Valencia


    Expected to be Z2189+ DF73+

    yJMUKT Nerio
    f58625 Saldaña
    f118176 Dos Reis
    fN110935 Garcia
    f143916 Rodriguez
    fN98133 Velasco

    Those who have actually tested for these SNPs so far are Garcia (Penaloza) Big Y (Z2189+ DF73-), Amuchastegui (Z2189+ Z2201+ Z2188- DF73-), Saldana 58625 (Z2189+ DF73+) and Rodriguez 143916 (DF73+, Z2189 pending).

    I have forwarded a submission to ISOGG to have Z2189 officially added to the ISOGG Y-chromosome tree.

    Unfortunately FTDNA appear to have included the wrong SNP for this Iberian branch in their updated Y-tree. They have used F3808, which is an A>C mutation at the same location on the Y chromosome as Z2201 (S939), which is A>G. I have emailed them about this, but have not as yet received a reply. All Z253+ Geno 2 results in the Z253 Project are F3808-.

    Greg H

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    We have some progress on this branch from Big Y and Z253 SNP Pack test results.

    The lead SNP is now Z2195. The SNP pathway is Z253>Z2534>ZZ5>Z2195. Kit N9996 Low (England) is derived for these SNPs but ancestral for other public SNPs on this branch.
    So below Z2195 is a block including Z2201, Z2190, Z2191, Z2197, S928 and S932.
    Z2189 may be in this block as well, or upstream at the level of Z2195.

    Then below the Z2201 block are the two known branches:
    DF73>Z2188>Z2204>Z29748
    BY279>BY410

    There are three kits from the 1000 Genomes Project which are Z2195+:
    HG01675 (Spain) is Z2204+Z29748-
    HG01503 (Spain) and HG01405 (Puerto Rico) re Z29748+

    Greg H

  6. #5
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    I have tested by YSEQ Z253+ DF73* while 4 iberians in "The Big Tree" are Z2188+. Against all odds, though I am full native iberian (88% iberian in new FTDNA's my Origins 2.0) with all my grandparents from Alicante Province, my closer relative in http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=15 is an canadian, Johnston (274021). My Gedmatch M358747

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     Underworld (05-01-2017)

  8. #6
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    Yfull.com has published first DF73* from Portugal (Z2188-) and ytree.net has another portuguese kit Z2188+
    It seems DF73 could be more western iberian roots than we thinked.

  9. #7
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    my Dante Labs BAM is processing in Yfull now kit id:YF67430 out of main branch Z2203. Next month full results

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     MacUalraig (12-04-2019)

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