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Thread: Modern Iranians are not Ancient Iranians! There is a difference!

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I trust you, but that's awfully a lot of medieval Turkish for Kurds isn't it? I don't think I've seen Kurds scoring more than 1-2% Siberian on most ADMIXTURE runs.
    Might be different samples aswell , I think Levant_BA in your run is the older one from Jordan, whilst I'm using the ones from Sidon. They were quite different.
    You are welcome to see the full output. Just let me know which samples, and I can post them.

    Yes, 1-2% is what gedmatch calculators show, but the problem is that their W Eurasian references such as Caucasians Iranians and some of their E European references are themselves E Asian admixed. So basically anything above 1-2% E Asian is hidden in those W Eurasian references which themselves received E Asian geneflow mostly post the Bronze-Age.

    That is the reason I wrote this article to show the hidden E Asian admixture:

    http://www.eurasiandna.com/2018/08/18/how-to-interpret-your-ancestry-admixture-results/



    So the Kipchak amount accounts for the accumulated E Admixture absorbed by Iranics such as Kurds from all the admixture pulses originating in Central Asia over the past 4000 years.

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  3. #172
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    I saw a figure placing modern Iranians between neolithic Iranians and neolithic Anatolian farmers. They also showed a slight shift to Eurasian HG. Pakistanis and Afghans were actually closer to Neolithic Iranians than modern iranians (except Zoroastrians).
    Keep in mind that neolithic NW-Iranians (Hasanlu) did not fall into a cluster with the other Neolitic Iranians. Instead they were pretty close to modern Iranians.

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  5. #173
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    Supplementary Table 3 and Supplementary Table 4 of Karafet et al. 2018 ("Siberian genetic diversity reveals complex origins of the Samoyedic-speaking populations") contain information regarding the Y-DNA of a substantial sample (n=136) of Iranians (Composite samples, Iran; "Language Family"=Indo-European/Indo-Iranian/Persian). I do not recall having seen data regarding this sample of Iranian Y-DNA in any previous publication. Does anyone recognize this sample?

    18 Iranian/Composite samples, Iran
    8/136 = 5.9% E-M123
    1/136 = 0.7% E-V12
    2/136 = 1.5% E-V13
    5/136 = 3.7% E-V22
    1/136 = 0.7% E-P1
    17/136 = 12.5% E total

    5/136 = 3.7% G-M285
    2/136 = 1.5% G-P15(xL30,L91)
    1/136 = 0.7% G-L30(xP303,L90)
    1/136 = 0.7% G-L90
    2/136 = 1.5% G-P303*
    11/136 = 8.1% G-M201 total

    1/136 = 0.7% F-M578(xK-M9, G-M201, J-M304)
    2/136 = 1.5% H1a1-M52
    1/136 = 0.7% I2a2a-M223/P222

    6/136 = 4.4% J1-M267(xJ1a2a1a-L136)
    3/136 = 2.2% J1a2a1a-L136(xJ1a2a1a2-P58)
    11/136 = 8.1% J1a2a1a2b-L147
    20/136 = 14.7% J1-M267 total

    3/136 = 2.2% J2a-M410(xP354)
    9/136 = 6.6% J2a1-L27(xJ2a1h-L24, J2a1b-M67, J2a1a-M322)
    5/136 = 3.7% J2a1h2-L25(xJ2a1h2a1-L70)
    1/136 = 0.7% J2a1h2a1-L70(xJ2a1h2a1b-M318)
    5/136 = 3.7% J2a1a-M47
    2/136 = 1.5% J2a1b-M67(xJ2a1b1-M92)
    4/136 = 2.9% J2a1b1-M92
    29/136 = 21.3% J2a-M410 total

    2/136 = 1.5% J2b-M12
    31/136 = 22.8% J2-M172 total

    1/136 = 0.7% L-M20(?xM76, M317, M357)
    2/136 = 1.5% L1a1-M76
    3/136 = 2.2% L1b-M317
    6/136 = 4.4% L-M20 total

    1/136 = 0.7% N1a2b-P43*
    1/136 = 0.7% O1a1a-P203(xM101)

    1/136 = 0.7% Q-P36(xQ1b-L474, Q1a2-M25, Q2a1-M378, Q1a1-NWT1)
    3/136 = 2.2% Q2a1-M378
    1/136 = 0.7% Q1b-M346*
    5/136 = 3.7% Q-P36 total

    3/136 = 2.2% R2a-M124

    2/136 = 1.5% R1-M173(xR1b1-L278, R1a1a-M515)
    4/136 = 2.9% R1a1a1b1a-Z282
    16/136 = 11.8% R1a1a1b2-Z93
    22/136 = 16.2% R1-M173(xR1b1-L278) total

    6/136 = 4.4% R1b1-L278(xR1b1a1a-P297)
    1/136 = 0.7% R1b1a1a1-M73
    2/136 = 1.5% R1b1a1a2-M269(xR1b1a1a2a-L23)
    5/136 = 3.7% R1b1a1a2a-L23(xR1b1a1a2a1a-P311)
    14/136 = 10.3% R1b1-L278 total

    1/136 = 0.7% T1a1-S21(Page21)*(?xT1a1a-S2(Page2))

    Iranian members of Y-DNA haplogroup R1b seem to be only distantly related to most Western European members of this haplogroup. The six Iranian R1b1-L278(xR1b1a1a-P297) individuals all carry identical or very similar Y-STR haplotypes, so they probably all belong to only one of the following subclades: R1b1b-PH155, R1b1a2-V88, or R1b1a1b-V1636.

    This study's sample of Uyghurs from Xinjiang (n=66) includes seven members of R1b1-L278(xR1b1a1a-P297). The Y-STR haplotypes of these Uyghur individuals are more diverse among themselves compared to the Y-STR haplotypes of the Iranian individuals, and none of them appears to be particularly closely related to the Iranians. There is also one R1b1-L278(xR1b1a1a-P297) individual in this study's sample of Manchus (n=50); this Manchu individual's haplotype does not seem particularly similar to that of any of the Iranians or Uyghurs.

    This study's two R1-M173(xR1b1-L278, R1a1a-M515) Iranian individuals carry similar Y-STR haplotypes, so they probably both belong to the same subclade of R1a(xR1a1a-M515/M17), such as R1a2-YP4141 or R1a1b-YP1272.

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  7. #174
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    Also from Tatiana M. Karafet, Ludmila P. Osipova, Olga V. Savina et al. (2018), "Siberian genetic diversity reveals complex origins of the Samoyedic-speaking populations": a possible instance of Y-DNA haplogroup I1 in a Tajik from Tajikistan.

    20 Tajik/Tajikistan
    1/15 C2c1-P323(xC2c1a1a1-M407) (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: C2 M217> F1067, Probability 57.09, Fitness 41.09, Fitness 2 0.86) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    1/15 E1b1b1a1-M78(xE1b1b1a1a1-V12, E1b1b1a1b1a-V13, E1b1b1a1b2-V22) (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: E1b1b (for 67+ markers, try level for E-s, 60+ subclades), Probability 79.48, Fitness 28.23, Fitness 2 0.63) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    1/15 I1-P30 (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: I1, Probability 99.89, Fitness 46.45, Fitness 2 0.82) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    2/15 J2a1-L27(xJ2a1h-L24, J2a1b-M67, J2a1a-M322)
    1/15 J2a1h-L24(xJ2a1h2-L25)
    1/15 J2a1a-M47/M322
    1/15 J2a1b-M67(xJ2a1b1-M92)
    1/15 O-P196(xO1a-M119, O1b-P31, O2-M122, O2-P198) (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: O1b1 F2320, Probability 48.82, Fitness 43.5, Fitness 2 0.88) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    1/15 O2a2b1-M134 (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: O2a2 F525, Probability 98.53, Fitness 56.09, Fitness 2 1.4) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    1/15 Q-P36(xQ1b-L474, Q1a2-M25, Q2a1-M378, Q1a1-NWT1) (NEVGEN prediction based on 12-loci Y-STR haplotype: Q L275>> L245, Probability 99.51, Fitness 63.83, Fitness 2 1.01) "Warning: Values of fitness (or relative fitness) are rather small, so results are not too confident. It is possible that its haplogroup is not supported by current version of predictor, or haplotype really belong to some supported haplogroup, but it is rare or too distant branch, which is not sufficiently represented in samples used by predictor."
    2/15 Q1a2-M25
    2/15 R1a1a1b2-Z93

    Other curious results from this small sample of Tajiks include the E1b1b1a1-M78(xE1b1b1a1a1-V12, E1b1b1a1b1a-V13, E1b1b1a1b2-V22) and the O-P196(xO1a-M119, O1b-P31, O2-M122, O2-P198).

    C2c1-P323(xC2c1a1a1-M407) belongs to the typically East/Southeast Asian (Manchu, Chinese, Tibetan, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Tai, etc.) C2c1-P323 branch of C2-M217, but not to its typically Central Eurasian (northern/western Mongolic in particular) C2c1a1a1-M407 subclade.
    Last edited by Ebizur; 10-12-2019 at 05:34 AM.

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