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Thread: Modern Iranians are not Ancient Iranians! There is a difference!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus82 View Post
    I believe they are generally under the subclades of R1a - Z93
    Yes, quite obvious but we still don't have any Iranian detailed specific cluster and we don't know what kind of Iranian R1a clusters in Iran are different from Armenians, Central Asians, Indians, Turks, Slavs, Mongols and Arabs. If we had a good number of Iranian NGS we would be able to understand when they arrived in Iran and how they settled and could split and grow there, but as I said we still don't have data and we still can't formulate any idea about Indo-Europeanization of Iran via any haplogroup.
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     Observer (10-08-2017)

  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Batroun View Post
    So the whole Indo-European genetic identity is really over exaggerated when it comes to modern day Farsi speaking Persian/Iranians?
    It is, indeed. The same can be said about Indians. Although, Y-Haplogroups tell us otherwise. But I think autosomally it is exaggerated.

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    There hasn't been any full scale analysis of modern Iranians compared to their counterparts from the past as far as im aware, which isn't much anyway so maybe i missed something. From what I've read here and there, its very likely that the Iranian gene pool remained pretty much the same since the bronze age, with the exception of a bit of turkic/SSA in more recent times though.
    Not much SSA at all, many Iranians don't have SSA, but a few from the very south (not Fars but Bander Abbas etc.) have significant African ancestry (4 to 20%). Also, Tehranis do seem to have a bit as well because slave women were imported into Qajar Iran from Africa and mainly concentrated in and around Tehran.

    Iranians have more South Asian admixture (4 to 10%) than they do SSA (1 to 5%).

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus82 View Post
    Where did this SSA come from? Was there extensive slave trade in Persia?

    Also I find it odd that the Kurds have higher amount of European admixture than Persians do have. Because Persians are closer to the geographic homeland of the Aryan settlements.
    Iranians don't have SSA at all, but some in the South do, but Iranians from Fars don't, mainly those from Khuzistan and Bandaris do. It came from the Portuguese and the Qajar era slave trade. But I think it's safe to say that any distinguishable African ancestry is not present in at least 75% of Iranians!

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    I can't say for sure, but SSA exists mostly in the south, and could have come from a number of sources. I think there was a slave trade in Iran, you can see the remnants of this through the Afro Iranian community that still exists in Khuzestan and surrounding areas today.

    It could also come through contact with Arabs, like in my families case the 1-2% SSA is probably due to our Egyptian ancestry.
    It's definitely due to your Egyptian ancestry. What percentage Egyptian are you? Most Egyptians are between 14 and 21% SSA.
    Last edited by Xehanort; 10-08-2017 at 11:32 PM.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    What you are calling "Iranian" is Middle Eastern. What are you on about?
    Yes, but Iranians are genetically closer to populations from the Caucasus than they are to Middle Easterners from Arabia, Syria, the Levant, and even Anatolia. By Middle Eastern, I obviously meant non-Iranian.

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     Tsakhur (10-09-2017)

  9. #27
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    I thought I'd share a couple of ChromoPainter heat maps that I ran for one of my projects. The matrix is based on the number of haplotypes shared between 2 samples. Analyzing with shared haplotypes is more robust than allele frequency analysis (for ex 23andMe uses haplotypes)

    Blue indicates the highest number of shared haplotypes while yellow the lowest. As has been mentioned here Kurds and Iranians are almost indistinguishable genetically, that is why you see Kurds (Kurd F= Feyli Kurds, Kurd C=Kurmanji Kurds) sharing the maximum number of haplotypes (Blue) with Mazendarani Iranians, Zoroastrians, and Diploid Satsurbila. Iran N is underestimated because it is the haploid genome published by Lazaridis. I haven't had the time to process it for diploid genotypes yet. Once I do, its sharing will increase with some populations from Kurdistan to Pakistan.

    The matrices also contain Caucasians, Europeans and ancient steppe samples that were imputed by Martiniano. The ones marked diploid, I processed and genotyped.

    I have removed a large number of markers in linkage disequilibrium from the dataset


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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    It's definitely due to your Egyptian ancestry. What percentage Egyptian are you? Most Egyptians are between 14 and 21% SSA.
    It ranges from 6-8%
    Last edited by ancestryfan1994; 10-09-2017 at 03:49 AM.

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     Power77 (10-10-2017)

  13. #29
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    Of course not, I am from West Iran have around 80% adna continuity with Iran_CHL (used one of those Eurogenes K36 tools to determine), the rest is Anatolian farmer and some N. Euro admixture (that came in later with the Indo-Iranian migrations), so modern Iranians are obviously not the same as Ancient Iranians but they are close.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoran View Post
    Of course not, I am from West Iran have around 80% adna continuity with Iran_CHL (used one of those Eurogenes K36 tools to determine), the rest is Anatolian farmer and some N. Euro admixture (that came in later with the Indo-Iranian migrations), so modern Iranians are obviously not the same as Ancient Iranians but they are close.
    Would you post your result with regard to Iran CHL? I am Kurd from Turkey. I wish to compare your results with mine.

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