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Thread: DF99 (P312>DF99)

  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaring View Post
    Are you shure that his surname is Czech (slavic)? Czechs often have slavified German surnames that may appear slavic-like for people witout deep knowledge.
    Is there a reference document for "slavified German" surnames? My mothers side has about one quarter Scottish/English but the rest is all Czech.... Kulhanek, Kovarik, Vana, Sestak, Petracek. My Mom's auDNA has some East Europe but has more West Europe (centering on mid-southern Germany). The leader of their immigration group after an 1848 Prague Rebellion was named John Herman.

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    The leader of their immigration group after an 1848 Prague Rebellion was named John Herman.
    That's a familiar name, of Czech/Bohemian origin, in the Chesapeake Bay area's earlier colonial history. (Perhaps also in New York and New Jersey, although I never spent much time studying that.) In case you haven't run across cousin Augustine, he produced a famous map in 1673 or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_Herman

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaring View Post
    Are you shure that his surname is Czech (slavic)? Czechs often have slavified German surnames that may appear slavic-like for people witout deep knowledge.
    It would be hard to find anyone who has less knowledge of Slavic surnames than me, but it doesn't look like any German surname I know of, so I am assuming it is Czech. I have asked him about the origin of his surname, but haven't as yet heard back from him.

  4. #664
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    I have not yet heard from the new DF99 in the Czech Republic yet, but I can report that his ancestry goes back to the 17th C. in eastern Moravia. There was a German minority there, but they were all expelled after WWII. My guess is that his family is not of recent German origin. This area was once home to the Celtic Boli, but I read that they withdrew from the area and were replaced in the Migration Era by a variety of Germanic tribes, including the Marcomanni and the Quadi. They were later overwhelmed by the arrival of the Slavic tribes. Since P312 in general and DF99 specifically aren't likely to have been present in the early Slavic tribes, I think we must look for an earlier origin of the Czech DF99.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    That's a familiar name, of Czech/Bohemian origin, in the Chesapeake Bay area's earlier colonial history. (Perhaps also in New York and New Jersey, although I never spent much time studying that.) In case you haven't run across cousin Augustine, he produced a famous map in 1673 or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_Herman
    I don't have much doubt that Herman in Bohemia was originally Hermann and of German origin. I don't have enough knowledge to comment about the other Czech surnames listed by Mike.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 04-19-2018 at 06:45 PM.

  6. #666
    I found this podcast and it's amazing background on migrations and really interesting.... I'm about 20 episodes in and I'm sure I'll listening to all of them. Super interesting

    http://historyofenglishpodcast.com

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  8. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post

    There are two pending DF99 tests from individuals with origins from very near the southern shore of the Baltic. One is from Schleswig-Holstein and the other is from the former Prussian province of Pomerania (Pommern). If these two are DF99+, as I strongly suspect, and the man from Finland can be persuaded to test and is also DF99+, we will pretty much have the Baltic encircled. While they all could be descendants of more modern immigrants to the area, it seems unlikely to me this is merely a coincidence. Perhaps they may be remnants of an ancient presence there.
    The second of the probable DF99 individuals of German ancestry from the southern shore of the Baltic finally received his long delayed DF99 test results, and like the first from Schleswig-Holstein, he is also positive. This one has ancestry from a small village near the former German town of Kolberg in Pomerania. These two are not matches at even 37 markers, so obviously aren't closely related. It appears to me that there was a DF99 presence in what was formerly northeast Germany (now part of Poland) along the southern shore of the Baltic, and that it extended northwards into Sweden on the western side of the Baltic and at least to Lithuania and probably Finland on the eastern side.

    Unfortunately there is no progress to report about getting the man in Finland to test for it, but I will try again.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 04-30-2018 at 01:37 AM.

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  10. #668
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    I stumbled unpon an old post on this forum from Tomenable, which goes like that:

    >>>
    In several Projects of Family Tree DNA I've gathered all samples from people born before WW2 in Silesia.

    Most of these men lived in the 19th, 18th, early 20th, but some in the 17th, 15th, one even died in the 12th century.

    In total I have found 100 Y-DNA samples from descendants of pre-war inhabitants of Silesia. Here we go:

    Sample/kit # - place of origin of most distant ancestor, ancestor's SURNAME (last SNP tested):

    (I list modern names of settlements, if you copy & paste a name in Google, German version will show up too):

    I1-M253 haplogroup - 13 samples from Silesia:

    kit #372952 - Silesia, RAUTENBERG (M253+)
    kit #E14316 - Żagań, VON NAUMANN (Z58+)
    kit #N11115 - Stary Kisielin/Zielona Góra, LIEHR (Z58+)
    kit #468007 - Boronów, BULLA (S2077/S2078+)
    kit #91645 - Dąbrówka Dolna, WELNA (Z63+)
    kit #119162 - Kobyla Góra, MAGNUSKI (L1237+)
    kit #188658 - Pietrzykowice, BIALEK (S2078+)
    kit #228663 - Karvina, KOPEL (Z140+)
    kit #268090 - Rokliny, FRANKE (M253+)
    kit #115240 - Stobrawa, DEUTSCHER (Z2336/L22+)
    kit #N37278 - Wrocław, DEMSKE (M253+)
    kit #167103 - Sośnicowice/Tarnowskie Góry, BOTUR (Z63+)
    kit #155178 - Kłodzko, ROSENBERGER (Z140+)

    J2-M172 haplogroup - 5 samples from Silesia:

    kit #B27771 - Suszec, JURECZKO (Z631+)
    kit #278599 - Wrocław, GABEL (M92+)
    kit #N27660 - Zabrze, NN (M172+)
    kit #N45394 - Silesia, GILL (FGC21360+)
    kit #66138 - Wrocław, ZWIEFKA (L283+)

    E1b1b haplogroup - 4 samples from Silesia:

    kit #E18170 - Sternalice, STEINERT (PF1975+)
    kit #83418 - Racibórz, FIEGLER (V13+)
    kit #233387 - Krasne Pole (Ostrava), HONHEISER (V13+)
    kit #155147 - Lubin, SEIFLEIN (V13+)

    G2a haplogroup - 3 samples:

    kit #285720 - Gliwice, BEIDEL (Y8903+)
    kit #231079 - Uszyce, KOWALSKI (P15+)
    kit #265686 - Lutomia Górna, POHL (L13/L78+)

    N1c haplogroup - 3 samples:

    kit #N49541 - Rydułtowy, MEISEL (L1025+)
    kit #N107445 - Złotoryja, NOWAK (Y4706+)
    kit #E11197 - Górki, BLACH (L1025+)

    G2b haplogroup - 2 samples:

    kit #123331 - Bolesławiec, BRODA, (M377+)
    kit #72341 - Podkamień, ADER (M377+)

    J1 haplogroup - 2 samples:

    kit #77418 - Praszka, GUTFRAJND (Z18271+)
    kit #N13360 - Pszczyna, WARZECHA (P58+)

    I2a haplogroup - only 1 sample:

    kit #300972 - Laskówka, SCHINDLER (CTS5966+)

    T haplogroup - 1 sample:

    kit #161332 - Zielona Góra, SCHÜTZ (P322+)

    Q haplogroup - 1 sample:

    kit #89372 - Mikołów, DE KRUPPA (L275+)

    R1b-M269 haplogroup - only 11 samples from Silesia:

    kit #227479 - Cieszyn, FIEDLER (M269+)
    kit #E1877 - Lower Silesia, QUADE (M269+)
    kit #E2541 - Ludwigsthal, SCHIRM (U106, S10185+)
    kit #132073 - Kotulin Mały, KORUS (M269+)
    kit #B4978 - Ostrava, SELIGA (U152, DF103+)
    kit #422423 - Oława, KARPEL (U152, Z49+)
    kit #N89895 - Żagań, SCHULZ (U106+)
    kit #N114363 - Nowa Sól, SCHMIDT (P312, DF99+)
    kit #E4911, E14624 - Kolsko, LEFEBER (P312, L21+)
    kit #N11619 - Okunin, SCHILLING (M269+)
    kit #176123 - Gliwice, KONIECZNY (Z2103, BY593+)
    >>>

    Did you see the individual from Silesia who is DF99? kit #N114363 - Nowa Sól, SCHMIDT (P312, DF99+)
    Global K25 Modern: German 26.4%, French 18.4%, Belgian 16.6%
    MDLP K16 Modern: German 50%, French 18.6%, French East 8.2%
    Euro K36 Modern: German 36.26%, French 35.8%, Belgian 27.9%
    Global K25 Ancient: Germany STR316 22%, Germany STR535 17.1%, Beaker Central Europe I3594 11.55%
    MDLP K11 Ancient: Bell Beaker Germany 17.6%, Corded Ware Germany 9%, Bell Beaker 8.8%
    DNAL K12 Ancient: Corded Ware Germany 34.2%, Stuttgart SG 13.2%, Sintashta RISE395 9.6%

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  12. #669
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    I wonder if there is a BAM file of this individual?
    Global K25 Modern: German 26.4%, French 18.4%, Belgian 16.6%
    MDLP K16 Modern: German 50%, French 18.6%, French East 8.2%
    Euro K36 Modern: German 36.26%, French 35.8%, Belgian 27.9%
    Global K25 Ancient: Germany STR316 22%, Germany STR535 17.1%, Beaker Central Europe I3594 11.55%
    MDLP K11 Ancient: Bell Beaker Germany 17.6%, Corded Ware Germany 9%, Bell Beaker 8.8%
    DNAL K12 Ancient: Corded Ware Germany 34.2%, Stuttgart SG 13.2%, Sintashta RISE395 9.6%

  13. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theconqueror View Post

    Did you see the individual from Silesia who is DF99? kit #N114363 - Nowa Sól, SCHMIDT (P312, DF99+)
    Yes, he is a German national living in Berlin who tested DF99+ back in 2015. His ancestor lived in what was then Neusalz an der Oder in the Prussian province of Silesia. The town was a major port on the Oder for the shipment of salt. The province was awarded to Poland after WWII and its German population was expelled.

    He hasn't tested beyond DF99 and hasn't done the Big Y, hence no BAM file.

    I have wondered if he might be a descendant of those Beakers who settled along the Oder river, but obviously that is highly speculative.

    Incidentally I try not to use surnames when discussing people's results on a public forum, but Tomenable let the cat out of the bag.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 05-03-2018 at 11:10 PM.

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