DF99 (P312>DF99)

[Theconqueror]

In terms of ancient, the picture is somewhat different.


Input Group Name Details Fit
1 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Baleares HG01615 Modern; 2.728
2 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Baleares_Averaged Averaged 2.756
3 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_MassamToulouse 2.818
4 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Andalucia HG01619 Modern; 2.912
5 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French67 Modern; 2.913
6 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Aragon HG01673 Modern; 2.917
7 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French33 Modern; 2.962
8 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_CZE I4885 Ancient; BCE:2150 2.98
9 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_Averaged Averaged 2.983
10 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French9 Modern; 2.988
11 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cataluna HG01537 Modern; 3.005
12 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria I5520 Ancient; BCE:2250 3.084
13 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Baleares HG01613 Modern; 3.112
14 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Austrian Austria10 Modern; 3.113
15 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HUN_MA_Szolad SZ45 Ancient; CE:505 3.118
16 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cataluna_Averaged Averaged 3.16
17 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Valencia HG01605 Modern; 3.161
18 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Andalucia_Averaged Averaged 3.164
19 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Italian_Bergamo_Averaged Averaged 3.171
20 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French3 Modern; 3.189
21 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_Averaged Averaged 3.191
22 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Italian_Bergamo HGDP01147 Modern; 3.229
23 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Valencia_Averaged Averaged 3.235
24 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Aragon_Averaged Averaged 3.243
25 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria E09538 Ancient; BCE:2337 3.253
26 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha_Averaged Averaged 3.254
27 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 DEU_Roman FN_2 Ancient; CE:400 3.261
28 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 DEU_Roman_Averaged Averaged 3.261
29 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French46 Modern; 3.281
30 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Extremadura HG01510 Modern; 3.29
31 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French36 Modern; 3.294
32 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cantabria HG01513 Modern; 3.31
33 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Murcia_Averaged Averaged 3.314
34 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cantabria_Averaged Averaged 3.323
35 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_Massam 3.329
36 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon HG01506 Modern; 3.37
37 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE I10895 Ancient; CE:879 3.373
38 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_East French24148 Modern; 3.389
39 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French32 Modern; 3.394
40 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Valencia HG01607 Modern; 3.432
41 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_CHE_Averaged Averaged 3.433
42 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HUN_MA_Szolad SZ28 Ancient; CE:505 3.444
43 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_Massam_father 3.456
44 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French4 Modern; 3.459
45 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria I5524 Ancient; BCE:2250 3.461
46 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_bigl 3.463
47 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Baleares HG01625 Modern; 3.508
48 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HUN_BA I7043 Ancient; BCE:2350 3.515
49 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French40 Modern; 3.541
50 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL_Averaged Averaged 3.542
51 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_Dewsloth_dad 3.545
52 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_East_Averaged Averaged 3.582
53 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cantabria HG01679 Modern; 3.582
54 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon_Averaged Averaged 3.59
55 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HRV_MBA_Averaged Averaged 3.599
56 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_South SouthFrench3326 Modern; 3.599
57 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Belgian Belgium6 Modern; 3.615
58 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Italian_Bergamo HGDP01153 Modern; 3.617
59 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha HG01503 Modern; 3.646
60 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 BGR_EBA I2165 Ancient; BCE:2957 3.656
61 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Extremadura_Averaged Averaged 3.657
62 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 German German2 Modern; 3.657
63 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES_Averaged Averaged 3.662
64 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_East French24124 Modern; 3.685
65 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE I10892 Ancient; CE:985 3.688
66 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French50 Modern; 3.741
67 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_MatAust 3.748
68 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French20 Modern; 3.772
69 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Cantabria HG01512 Modern; 3.773
70 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_South_Averaged Averaged 3.775
71 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_Rabai 3.781
72 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Belgian Belgium25 Modern; 3.785
73 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 German German5 Modern; 3.787
74 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Portuguese_Averaged Averaged 3.795
75 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha HG02238 Modern; 3.804
76 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 German German48 Modern; 3.817
77 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Italian_Bergamo HGDP01155 Modern; 3.818
78 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Levant_LBN_MA_Euro_Averaged Averaged 3.82
79 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Italian_Bergamo HGDP01152 Modern; 3.827
80 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French8 Modern; 3.84
81 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HRV_MBA I4332 Ancient; BCE:1600 3.847
82 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon HG01501 Modern; 3.869
83 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Andalucia HG01620 Modern; 3.874
84 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Murcia HG01617 Modern; 3.876
85 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Extremadura HG01527 Modern; 3.876
86 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_conqueror 3.886
87 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Andalucia HG01623 Modern; 3.886
88 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 ITA_Collegno_MA CL47 Ancient; CE:671 3.891
89 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_East French24075 Modern; 3.899
90 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Custom AGUser_Fabiola 3.906
91 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Aragon HG01676 Modern; 3.907
92 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Austrian Austria4 Modern; 3.909
93 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Murcia HG01699 Modern; 3.925
94 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 HUN_BA I7040 Ancient; BCE:2350 3.927
95 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French French22 Modern; 3.928
96 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1_Averaged Averaged 3.934
97 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 French_East French23919 Modern; 3.949
98 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Bell_Beaker_ITA I2478 Ancient; BCE:2065 3.956
99 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha HG01746 Modern; 3.958
100 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL94 Portuguese Portugal2 Modern; 3.965

[Telfermagne]

In terms of ancient, the picture is somewhat different.

Most excellent. I want to run the remains through MDLP k11 Modern since it seems to eliminate the inclusion of modern samples (judging by the population names used in the source spreadsheet, confirmation as to whether that's true or not would be swell) - the reason being, to reduce the chance of needlessly large variance which contributes to over-fitting. Another issue is tracking an accurate kit on Gedmatch so I can get the source values to do an nMonte hoopitydoop.

EDIT

I think I found CL94

CA9725839

I really hope it's legit.

[Telfermagne]

I ran what seems to be CL94's Gedmatch kit through the MDLP k11, and nMonte. But, I think this individual is used in the calculator, but I'm not sure which population they're included in since the ID's from the studies were stripped from the populations. Each model I got was pretty much trash, either way far out in distance or over-fitted like a mofo. Back to the drawing board :/

[Theconqueror]

I have this gedmatch ID

Kit Number: Z104813 (135,630 SNPs)
Name: CL94
1 Italian_North @ 5.977793
1 Frisian + Russian-West + Sardinian + Sicilian_Center @ 2.414938

gedmatch is down right now, I will check later to run it again.

[Theconqueror]

delete

[Theconqueror]

and this is the Lombards on a PCA. pretty clear where CL94 lands.

Attachment 31785

[Telfermagne]

Tried doing some BEUTi and BEAST junk to go with ggtree, but crashed everything when trying to convert the data to a Nexus format that would be accepted by the programs

Reckon until I have an appropriate system to use the inquiry will be sidelined on my end.

I was wanting to create a phylogenetic tree with all these ancient DNA goobers, CL94 included, plus my own (& parents') genome data.

I have to redownload the supplementary material, but if memory serves there was a record of the Y-SNPs tested - curious if anyone noticed anything that stood out as possibly down stream of DF99?

[GoldenHind]

and this is the Lombards on a PCA. pretty clear where CL94 lands.

Attachment 31785

The attachment appears to be invalid.

While I am on pretty firm ground with Y-DNA, I don't understand this PCA stuff at all, or the long series of comparisons you posted above. Could you please tell us what you think it signifies?

[GoldenHind]

I really hope that the donor decides to purchase something like the Big-Y eventually (along with a few others that I'm interested in). Kinda stinks that the products are not always marketable to persons of interest.

Also, does anyone have more information on the Lombard DF99 that was found (CL94)?

I'm also confused as to why some refer to this individual as mostly Southern European, I have the supplementary data from that study and CL94 is a three-way mix roughly of Northern+Intermediate+Southern:

1/3rd (GBR+CEU + FIN), 1/3rd TSI (Tuscan, an intermediate pop, neither strictly Southern or whatever) and then 1/3rd Iberian.
Attachment 31713

The populations used to create proportions for the remains are modern, and modern day Tuscans are not strictly Southern European, they're a "highway population" like the French and Germans, already deeply mixed :/

I have considering contacting the authors to see if they would provide more information. The isotopic study established that he wasn't from the local area, but I couldn't find anything about what area he is believed to have come from. His grave was apparently disturbed in the past (whether by grave robbers or a plow I have no idea), so there were apparently no grave goods found with him.

I have never been able to figure out why comparing his autosomal DNA with the modern results from the 1000 Genomes Project should signify much of anything. Half of it would have come from his mother, and another quarter from his paternal grandmother, so I can't see that it tells us much of anything about the origin of his Y-DNA ancestors. If anyone thinks this is somehow important, perhaps they could explain why.

[Telfermagne]

I have considering contacting the authors to see if they would provide more information. The isotopic study established that he wasn't from the local area, but I couldn't find anything about what area he is believed to have come from. His grave was apparently disturbed in the past (whether by grave robbers or a plow I have no idea), so there were apparently no grave goods found with him.

I have never been able to figure out why comparing his autosomal DNA with the modern results from the 1000 Genomes Project should signify much of anything. Half of it would have come from his mother, and another quarter from his paternal grandmother, so I can't see that it tells us much of anything about the origin of his Y-DNA ancestors. If anyone thinks this is somehow important, perhaps they could explain why.

Comparison to the moderns won't be that informative, akin to analyzing crude oil vapor by the conditions of diesel fuel distillate (a relationship exists between the two, but understanding the basal substance by looking at the derived substance can only give so much info).

Now, looking at the person against the ancient autosomal DNA available can be helpful in terms of tracking down how that person got to their grave if they match best with ancients outside of the area where they died. It can give some insight into what the vessel was for transporting that Y-DNA.