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Thread: I2a introduced Indo-European to Atlantic Europe (?)

  1. #41
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    aka Maabof @ Dorset, UK
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    Eastern Bell Beaker v Maritime Bell Beaker v Halberd Culture.

    When i look at Eastern Beaker in the Isled during the Chalcolithic I see Beaker transforming during the fission phase around 2200BC and Food vessel (DF210 being a closely related but culturally slightly different 'cousin' culture.

    I am wondering if Remedello / El Argar halberd societies could be regarded as closely related ' cousin' cultures to Maritime Beaker. Needham distinguishes Halberd from Beaker in Iberia but acknowledges the split is 'greyer' compared to Ireland. At various places hoards containing both Maritime Beaker Palmella points and halberds have been found.

    Are Remedello, El Argar, Iberian Maritime Beaker hybrid 'indo-europeanised' cultures that adopted some Indo-European practices through culturel transmission/sharing of ideas.

    If so, did this resulted in some hybrid burial practices linking single grave elements to existing megalithic elements but maybe becoming more Indo-European single grave like over time eventually adopting kurgan style burials in the Unetice and Wessex -(but still retaining Neolithic traits like cremation in the Wessex burials).

    Did an I2a network adopt Indo-Europen cultural practices over time. And if so, did this, at any stage, include the Indo-Europen language? And what was the role of Stelae/stelae people in introducing these ideas (a distinct flow of ideas distinct from Corded/Eastern beaker.) And what was the dna of Stelae people if they existed.

    As a throw away...
    is Corded derived from Sredny Stog related origins / migrations...with Eastern Beaker closely grafted against this...
    ...and is Iberian/Maritime Beaker derived from a minor genetic input somewhere into central Europe (possibly isolated individuals into Iberia?) (from Yamnaya??) but primarily then cultural transmission and adaption through the I2a network.

  2. #42
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    United Kingdom

    United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Net Down G5L View Post
    The author has halberds later dated and spreading from Ireland in the Bronze Age.

    Needham has halberds earlier and spreading from Remedello in the Chalcolithic.
    Here is a stele from Arco, Northern Italy, of the Remedello Culture, showing Remedello daggers and halberds. From Brandherm D. 2004, Porteurs de hallebardes? Überlegungen zur Herkunft, Entwicklung und Funktion der bronzezeitlichen Stabklingen, Varia Neolithica III, pp. 279-334. (Via Jeunesse 2015 L’Italie et l’émergence de l’idéologie du guerrier dans la seconde moitié du 4ème millénaire av. J.-C.)


    [Added] Jeunesse says "We know today, thanks to the Italian discoveries (funeral furniture and iconography) that the appearance of the halberd (with flint or copper blades) must be unambiguously placed before the emergence of Bell Beaker".
    Last edited by Jean M; 11-08-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #43

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