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Thread: Frisian or North Dutch but no known Dutch ancestors?

  1. #1
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    Frisian or North Dutch but no known Dutch ancestors?

    Hello, I haven't posted since my first post because I've been busy with school. However my mother took her DNA test on ancestry recently and that recharged my interest.

    So when I run my DNA through gedmatch's MDLP project K23b I get this:


    1. South German 2.84 (my father's family is from Southern Germany in the Rhineland)

    2. German Volga 3.84 (what the)

    3. Frisian 4.2 (where does this come from?)

    4. Belgian 4.66 (what is "Belgian" ethnicity?)

    5. Dutch 4.76 (once again, no known ancestors)

    6. North German 5.74 (where my mother's family hailed from)

    7. Irish 6.08 (my father's other part of the family, more recent than the German)

    8. English 7.02 (both my parents have English ancestors, on my father's side, going back to the late 1500's in colonial America)

    9. Dane 8.11 (don't know how)

    10. Austrian 8.68

    11. English Kent GBR 8.7

    12. North European 8.83

    13. Swede 8.92 (once again, don't know how that got there)

    14. East Norwegian 9.31 (???)

    15. Italian North 9.87 (???)

    16. Cornish 9.95

    17. CEU 10.81 (what does this really mean?)

    18. Welsh 11.2

    19. British 11.27 (not really an ethnicity, but a nationality)

    20. Swedish Saami 11.32 (how???)

    As you can see I'm mainly western and northern European. However, I wonder where all the Scandinavian stuff came from? Also, while my surname is supposedly Dutch (we always thought it was German but my mom's German boss told her it was Dutch) I don't know anyone in my family history who was Dutch. Southeast English, or English Kent pops up as my highest result on most calculators on Eurogenes and MDLP project, and I know from a little research that the Frisians migrated there heavily during the Anglo-Saxon era, so maybe that's it. Dutch, both North (which usually appears higher up) and South appear frequently in my dna results on gedmatch, along with Southeast and Southwest English.

    Anyone have any idea where the Dutch/Frisian could have come from? Also, what's with the Swedish Saami? It appears higher up with my mother's DNA as well. Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
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    I think I get Frisian along with that too and if you just look at the geographical location you'll see that the Frisian region is about the halfway point between southern England and Northern Germany. If you're not at least 25% of something or if there is overlapping characteristics in the DNA a lot of times the sample will be lumped into what matches both or what is closest. I will also add that if you are mixed ancestry from North and South like I am picking one population group is not going to be very accurate at all.
    Last edited by JerryS.; 10-03-2017 at 05:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionLord View Post
    Hello, I haven't posted since my first post because I've been busy with school. However my mother took her DNA test on ancestry recently and that recharged my interest.

    So when I run my DNA through gedmatch's MDLP project K23b I get this:


    1. South German 2.84 (my father's family is from Southern Germany in the Rhineland)

    2. German Volga 3.84 (what the)

    3. Frisian 4.2 (where does this come from?)

    4. Belgian 4.66 (what is "Belgian" ethnicity?)

    5. Dutch 4.76 (once again, no known ancestors)

    6. North German 5.74 (where my mother's family hailed from)

    7. Irish 6.08 (my father's other part of the family, more recent than the German)

    8. English 7.02 (both my parents have English ancestors, on my father's side, going back to the late 1500's in colonial America)

    9. Dane 8.11 (don't know how)

    10. Austrian 8.68

    11. English Kent GBR 8.7

    12. North European 8.83

    13. Swede 8.92 (once again, don't know how that got there)

    14. East Norwegian 9.31 (???)

    15. Italian North 9.87 (???)

    16. Cornish 9.95

    17. CEU 10.81 (what does this really mean?)

    18. Welsh 11.2

    19. British 11.27 (not really an ethnicity, but a nationality)

    20. Swedish Saami 11.32 (how???)

    As you can see I'm mainly western and northern European. However, I wonder where all the Scandinavian stuff came from? Also, while my surname is supposedly Dutch (we always thought it was German but my mom's German boss told her it was Dutch) I don't know anyone in my family history who was Dutch. Southeast English, or English Kent pops up as my highest result on most calculators on Eurogenes and MDLP project, and I know from a little research that the Frisians migrated there heavily during the Anglo-Saxon era, so maybe that's it. Dutch, both North (which usually appears higher up) and South appear frequently in my dna results on gedmatch, along with Southeast and Southwest English.

    Anyone have any idea where the Dutch/Frisian could have come from? Also, what's with the Swedish Saami? It appears higher up with my mother's DNA as well. Thanks in advance.
    I think it's normal for the population. Half of my dad's family (for the last 300 years) is from a 40 mile diameter circle around Frankfurt and the other half is almost all British colonist from Mayflower to ~1750 [also a couple Belgians and some Ashkenazi]; but not too different from your background and results:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_German ( ) 3.05
    2 German-Volga ( ) 3.91
    3 Belgian ( ) 4.67
    4 Frisian ( ) 4.94
    5 Dutch ( ) 5.3
    6 North_German ( ) 6.13
    7 Irish ( ) 6.24
    8 English ( ) 6.51
    9 English_Kent_GBR ( ) 8.31
    10 North_European ( ) 8.31
    11 Dane ( ) 8.34
    12 Swede ( ) 9.1
    13 Austrian ( ) 9.16
    14 Norwegian_East ( ) 9.21
    15 Italian_North ( ) 9.49
    16 English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) 9.52
    17 CEU ( ) 10.26
    18 Welsh ( ) 10.58
    19 British ( ) 10.87
    20 French ( ) 11.76
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  5. #4
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    Seems I received a load of Frisian from my paternal side. Maybe this is how my Ydna got to Scotland. The Romans hired the Frisians to assist them in the invasion of Britain. Petilius Cerealis conquered the Brigantes in modern Yorkshire with their help. By chance? Livingdna indicated I have matching dna from North & South Yorkshire. Since I canít explain my Frisian, Iíll go with my g.............granddaddy was a Frisian general who then married a local lass and settled in Britain. Thatís a very long paper trail. I better get to work.

    MDLP 23b
    1 Frisian ( ) 0.98
    2 Belgian ( ) 2.03
    3 Irish ( ) 2.85
    4 English ( ) 3.66
    5 Dutch ( ) 4.03
    6 English_Kent_GBR ( ) 5.36
    7 South_German ( ) 5.39
    8 North_European ( ) 5.46
    9 German-Volga ( ) 6.11
    10 North_German ( ) 6.24
    11 English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) 6.34
    12 Norwegian_East ( ) 6.5
    13 Dane ( ) 6.84
    14 Swede ( ) 6.97
    15 CEU ( ) 7.23
    16 British ( ) 7.61
    17 Welsh ( ) 7.71
    18 Norwegian_West ( ) 8.74
    19 Icelandic ( ) 10.03
    20 French ( ) 10.07

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionLord View Post
    Hello, I haven't posted since my first post because I've been busy with school. However my mother took her DNA test on ancestry recently and that recharged my interest.

    So when I run my DNA through gedmatch's MDLP project K23b I get this:


    1. South German 2.84 (my father's family is from Southern Germany in the Rhineland)

    2. German Volga 3.84 (what the)

    3. Frisian 4.2 (where does this come from?)

    4. Belgian 4.66 (what is "Belgian" ethnicity?)

    5. Dutch 4.76 (once again, no known ancestors)

    6. North German 5.74 (where my mother's family hailed from)

    7. Irish 6.08 (my father's other part of the family, more recent than the German)

    8. English 7.02 (both my parents have English ancestors, on my father's side, going back to the late 1500's in colonial America)

    9. Dane 8.11 (don't know how)

    10. Austrian 8.68

    11. English Kent GBR 8.7

    12. North European 8.83

    13. Swede 8.92 (once again, don't know how that got there)

    14. East Norwegian 9.31 (???)

    15. Italian North 9.87 (???)

    16. Cornish 9.95

    17. CEU 10.81 (what does this really mean?)

    18. Welsh 11.2

    19. British 11.27 (not really an ethnicity, but a nationality)

    20. Swedish Saami 11.32 (how???)

    As you can see I'm mainly western and northern European. However, I wonder where all the Scandinavian stuff came from? Also, while my surname is supposedly Dutch (we always thought it was German but my mom's German boss told her it was Dutch) I don't know anyone in my family history who was Dutch. Southeast English, or English Kent pops up as my highest result on most calculators on Eurogenes and MDLP project, and I know from a little research that the Frisians migrated there heavily during the Anglo-Saxon era, so maybe that's it. Dutch, both North (which usually appears higher up) and South appear frequently in my dna results on gedmatch, along with Southeast and Southwest English.

    Anyone have any idea where the Dutch/Frisian could have come from? Also, what's with the Swedish Saami? It appears higher up with my mother's DNA as well. Thanks in advance.
    When you have a Dutch last name this already gives a clue. You could PM me I can see if it's a Dutch name and if it's a North Dutch/ Frisian name.

    Some of the old Anglo Saxon samples (Hinxton) show a Frisian/North Dutch affinity.

    In the early middle ages, at the end of the Roman Empire, there was in Frisia a severe population decline. Some say in West Frisian the population was nearly zero, but that's not sure. May be they moved indeed to other parts of Europe.

    In the early middle Ages some Angles, Jutes, Saxons replaced or fused with the remaining old Frisians.

    So around the North Sea it's one big melting pot (already in mesolithic times!).

    Of course in and after the Dutch Golden Agen 17th century when Holland was a superpower the Dutch went to different parts of the world the US (to New Amsterdam euhmmm New York) so this could be in your family the case.

  8. #6
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    These are the distances you have to those populations, so you are closest to South Germans, second to Volga Germans, third to Frisians; this does not mean that you have Frisian or Danish ancestors. These populations are all a dot on a plot, and you are a dot on a plot, the number after these populations is the distance your dot has to the population dot on the plot. Hope you can visualize that.
    Last edited by Pylsteen; 10-03-2017 at 07:57 PM.

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    this does not mean that you have Frisian or Danish ancestors.
    Exactly!

    This is simply saying if all your ancestors were from one place what is the best guess, second best, ect. If you draw a line between any of your mainland euro countries of origins and your british isles ones chances are they'll cross either France, Belgium or the Netherlands--only makes sense the mix of the two would be closest to people from those locations.

    I am predominately Irish, Scottish, Palatinate, English, Bavarian, Prussian and Swiss and get similar results:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Dutch_ @ 2.679750
    2 Frisian_ @ 3.128326
    3 Belgian_ @ 3.359815
    4 South_German_ @ 4.469008
    5 Irish_ @ 4.548810
    6 English_ @ 4.555212
    7 German-Volga_ @ 5.044850
    8 North_European_ @ 5.329560
    9 Norwegian_East_ @ 6.585406
    10 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 6.663941
    11 Dane_ @ 6.739683
    12 North_German_ @ 6.805382
    13 CEU_ @ 7.041433
    14 British_ @ 7.541441
    15 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 7.549469
    16 Norwegian_West_ @ 7.691792
    17 Swede_ @ 7.879519
    18 Icelandic_ @ 8.160346
    19 Welsh_ @ 8.215621
    20 Austrian_ @ 8.352199

    Look at Oracle 4 for a better prediction of your origins, but as an American chances are some or all of our grandparents were mixed as well.
    Predominately English, Irish & German with Dutch, Swiss, French & Polish
    Y Haplogroup E-V13 ("Siegel" via Prussia), Mt Haplogroup H24a1 (via Unknown)

    GEDmatch Kits: A436029, M213836, Z169952 GEDCOM: 7950338

    Ancestry: Hidden Content
    MyHeritage: Hidden Content
    23andme: Hidden Content
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    For comparison, my mother who is East Anglian English, of very local rural ancestry, her genetic distances single population on MDLP 23b:

    1 German-Volga_ @ 3.925022
    2 South_German_ @ 4.037148
    3 Belgian_ @ 4.657592
    4 Frisian_ @ 5.415426
    5 English_ @ 6.414409
    6 Dutch_ @ 6.463061
    7 Irish_ @ 6.685787
    8 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 7.394555
    9 North_European_ @ 7.536756
    10 Austrian_ @ 8.458899
    11 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 8.553864
    12 CEU_ @ 8.798103
    13 British_ @ 9.274721
    14 Welsh_ @ 9.280039
    15 North_German_ @ 9.290485
    16 Norwegian_East_ @ 9.961761
    17 Dane_ @ 10.033820
    18 Serb_Serbia_ @ 10.461037
    19 German_East_ @ 10.606825
    20 Norwegian_West_ @ 10.954029

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    My father's K23b. His known ancestry is English with ? a little Welsh. ( Derbyshire,Gloucestershire, Lancashire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire,Yorkshire,Flintshire, )

    FTDNA

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Frisian_ @ 1.802139
    2 Belgian_ @ 2.758907
    3 Irish_ @ 3.011631
    4 English_ @ 3.461139
    5 Dutch_ @ 3.892077
    6 North_European_ @ 4.037617
    7 South_German_ @ 4.329665
    8 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 5.063074
    9 CEU_ @ 5.393757
    10 British_ @ 5.940526
    11 German-Volga_ @ 6.117702
    12 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 6.147819
    13 Norwegian_East_ @ 6.430245
    14 Welsh_ @ 6.443311
    15 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 6.995674
    16 Norwegian_West_ @ 7.197391
    17 North_German_ @ 7.283174
    18 Icelandic_ @ 7.546184
    19 Dane_ @ 7.791130
    20 Orcadian_ @ 7.905043

    My K23b. Known ancestry ( Derbyshire,Gloucestershire, Lancashire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire,Yorkshire,Flintshire, Banffshire, East Lothian, Glasgow,Midlothian,Morayshire, Northumbria, Antrim,other areas of Ireland? )

    23andMe

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Irish_ @ 2.864248
    2 English_ @ 2.987091
    3 North_European_ @ 3.542619
    4 CEU_ @ 4.313725
    5 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 4.417881
    6 Frisian_ @ 4.442564
    7 Belgian_ @ 4.813258
    8 Dutch_ @ 4.901242
    9 British_ @ 5.178688
    10 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 5.236340
    11 Welsh_ @ 5.313340
    12 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 5.484914
    13 Orcadian_ @ 5.600649
    14 Icelandic_ @ 6.309899
    15 Norwegian_East_ @ 6.921337
    16 South_German_ @ 7.054728
    17 Norwegian_West_ @ 7.060347
    18 German-Volga_ @ 7.182668
    19 Dane_ @ 8.561543
    20 North_German_ @ 9.103717

    FTDNA

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_European_ @ 2.812720
    2 English_ @ 2.835389
    3 Irish_ @ 3.018712
    4 Frisian_ @ 4.155223
    5 Dutch_ @ 4.214088
    6 Belgian_ @ 4.398152
    7 CEU_ @ 4.427139
    8 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 4.848122
    9 British_ @ 5.419805
    10 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 5.542854
    11 Norwegian_East_ @ 5.581871
    12 Icelandic_ @ 5.596888
    13 Welsh_ @ 5.704315
    14 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 5.844666
    15 Orcadian_ @ 6.009390
    16 South_German_ @ 6.159321
    17 Norwegian_West_ @ 6.234389
    18 German-Volga_ @ 7.264113
    19 Dane_ @ 7.484832
    20 North_German_ @ 7.775517
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  14. #10
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    I can't send Pm's until I have 10 posts, so it'll be a bit. However, my family left the Rheinland Paltinate around 1859 and settled in Northern Michigan before moving to Ohio during the American Civil War. The town they lived in was rural, ancient, and tiny. Today it houses only 77 inhabitants.

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