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Thread: Harappa Ancestry Project

  1. #21
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    Was just checking the haplogroup sheet, and apparently my haplogroup data was deleted at some point in 2013. I am HRP0010. I have reentered my data in the sheet.

    That gave me the idea to create another tree, but this time, instead of ethnicity, or ID number representing an individual, I would use Y-DNA data (if available). I will try and do the same for mtDNA later.


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  3. #22
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  5. #23
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    Also, why did HarappaWorld shut down their comments? No more discussion there apparently...

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViktorL1 View Post
    Also, why did HarappaWorld shut down their comments? No more discussion there apparently...
    It's quite unfortunate that comments aren't allowed at HAP anymore. Zack took this step because of some persistent trolls, who made the comment stream a really awkward place. On top of that, people we're beginning to discuss some rather weird topics. I hope that Zack eventually brings back the comment function.

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  9. #25
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    I think Zack made the right decision at this point in time.

    As an observer and visiting poster to his blog in the earlier days, it is apparent that - For whatever reason - The topic of South Asian genetics has attracted individuals who almost obsessively post on topics in a circular fashion. Many later blog entries are accompanied by 100+ posts from the same handful of users, multiple times.

    I recognised some of these posters, as their style matches that of known trolls on other forums. The comments section became cluttered with either too much ambiguous or niche information that was rarely substantiated.

    Conversation is conversation, but the manner in which these contributors were approaching his posts simply isn't fit for a blog format. It is a shame; some useful perspectives were expressed there.

    I'd very much like to find a way of mediating a solution to the issue - I imagine others, including Zack, are disappointed with the required measures to that established problem.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    I think Zack made the right decision at this point in time.

    As an observer and visiting poster to his blog in the earlier days, it is apparent that - For whatever reason - The topic of South Asian genetics has attracted individuals who almost obsessively post on topics in a circular fashion. Many later blog entries are accompanied by 100+ posts from the same handful of users, multiple times.

    I recognised some of these posters, as their style matches that of known trolls on other forums. The comments section became cluttered with either too much ambiguous or niche information that was rarely substantiated.

    Conversation is conversation, but the manner in which these contributors were approaching his posts simply isn't fit for a blog format. It is a shame; some useful perspectives were expressed there.

    I'd very much like to find a way of mediating a solution to the issue - I imagine others, including Zack, are disappointed with the required measures to that established problem.
    I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViktorL1 View Post
    I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.
    European and African genetics attract their own myriad of trolls, my friend, but the matter does seem especially passionate among West and South Asians.

    This isn't an online social phenomenon that I think can be explained in literature, given how recent the Internet is. We'll have to make our own deductions based on prior experience. I perceive the strong emotional contingent to these discussions to ultimately stem from the long history of historical revisionism and/or the enforcement of local divisions across that part of the world. People generally become more sensitive to their group identity and how others perceive them, which then determines how they interact with others. The comments section of the Harappa Project website demonstrate all of these observations consistently.

    Thus, the Internet becomes a medium to which some people automatically regurgitate the accumulation of these real world effects on self-identification without questioning them. These people likely become major obstacles to proper discussion, but many are not beyond reproach. With enough sensible interaction and subsequent attrition of their dogmatic views from within, a large number can become rational and sensible contributors to any community. Many, however, do not go through this.

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  15. #28
    I think certain South and West Asian posters see themselves as the center of the world from which other people descend from. There are already claims being thrown around on the west Asian origin of YDNA C which is pretty laughable.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViktorL1 View Post
    I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.
    Its really is too bad, I enjoyed reading constructive and productive comments on Zack's Harappan blog, but it really got out of hand and the poor guy just couldn't keep moderating the discussions.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    I think certain South and West Asian posters see themselves as the center of the world from which other people descend from. There are already claims being thrown around on the west Asian origin of YDNA C which is pretty laughable.
    Indeed. I'm familiar with grandiosity coming from some posters of South or West Asian background online (i.e. everyone and everything's actually a Turk), but this attempt at defining West Asia as the birthplace of Y-DNA C is a new one. What is the proposed basis to this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrdad View Post
    Its really is too bad, I enjoyed reading constructive and productive comments on Zack's Harappan blog, but it really got out of hand and the poor guy just couldn't keep moderating the discussions.
    I can imagine viewing hundreds of rabid-sounding messages from the same congregation of people for months can be tedious at best and downright daunting at worst.

    When Zack founded the Harappa Ancestry Project all those years back, a ridiculously large information black hole existed concerning the state of South Asian genetics. I don't think current participants are aware of how little we at DNA-Forums knew about India's genetic structure beyond the 2006 Sengupta et al. paper, for example. His efforts have pushed our understanding of population structures both within and in the immediate vicinity of the Indian Subcontinent forward by years relative to standard peer review research.

    In my view, all enthusiasts of South Asian genetics should be paying tribute to his invaluable contribution. Instead, some very persistent individuals are glossing over this fact completely by fixating on their agendas. This is an unacceptable way of honouring this man's hard work. Unfortunately, this was inevitable in hindsight, given the persistence of these characters (demonstrated elsewhere online) and the limited means to which he could regulate them as the sole administrator of an independent site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sein View Post
    An excellent sociological-anthropological analysis!

    What I personally find fascinating, approximately 70% of all comments on later blog entries (in particular, the last one) stem from the keyboard of a single individual. ...
    Now this was an excellent and insightful post. I am somewhat aware of the views held by Pakistani Pashtuns (also a poster at Pashtun Forums), such as the call for a Pakhtunistan and the dissolution of the artificial Durand line. The connection with the Muhajjir perspective wasn't immediately apparent, but it definitely makes sense.

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