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Thread: R-M420* Phylogenetic Tree

  1. #1
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    R-M420* Phylogenetic Tree

    The R1a* project at FTDNA has a collection of haplotypes for men who are M420+ SRY10831.2-

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    So far, we have two tight clusters of primarily Western European men that fit this group. Based on our STR phylogeny, it seems that both clusters share a common ancestor that R1a1 does not share. Thus, there should be a uniting SNP awaiting discovery.

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  3. #2
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    Most of the R1a*-M420 men have tested to 67 STR's, so the trends seen here are highly suggestive of the actual phylogenetic structure.

    I noted from the Project Results that most of these men are of European descent. Would you agree the current results are an example of sampling bias at work, given Underhill et al. found most of their R1a-M420 (xR1a1-SRY10831.2) in West Asia and adjacent regions rather than Europe despite analysing thousands of haplotypes?

    In that regard, I do wonder where the eastern R1a*-M420 samples would fit cluster-wise here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    I noted from the Project Results that most of these men are of European descent. Would you agree the current results are an example of sampling bias at work, given Underhill et al. found most of their R1a-M420 (xR1a1-SRY10831.2) in West Asia and adjacent regions rather than Europe despite analysing thousands of haplotypes?
    .
    Yes, that is my conclusion.

    The lack of Jewish and Arabic samples is vexing, though, and I think it is possible the common ancestor of the two clusters was himself European.

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    R1a* group member Fernandes has been patiently waiting 8 months to be grouped in with his matches in the Project.

  6. #5
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    I'm arab and tested r1a*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahaddad View Post
    I'm arab and tested r1a*
    Ahaddad, with all due respect, your paternal line is not "Arab." At least not genetically. Whether you wish to identify as "Arab" is your choice. Your father is a Chaldean Catholic from N Iraq, and appears to be very similar to me, and other Assyrians, autosomally.

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  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Ahaddad, with all due respect, your paternal line is not "Arab." At least not genetically. Whether you wish to identify as "Arab" is your choice. Your father is a Chaldean Catholic from N Iraq, and appears to be very similar to me, and other Assyrians, autosomally.
    It's not likely R1a* is a Chaldean line either though.

  10. #8
    I wonder what the origin of that upstream Tibetan R1a was.

  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    I wonder what the origin of that upstream Tibetan R1a was.
    I have spoken so long about Haddad's haplotype, which is similar to the European R1a-M420*, but with some differences so it was difficult at a first sight to choose between R1a-M420* and R-V88+. Thus probably this is the R1a-M420 line we find in the Iranian region. We did know that there were some R1a-M420*, but we didn't (and don't) know their haplotype.
    To find R1a-M420* in the Indian region would be a surprise, because we haven't found that haplogroup so far, this was one of the reason for that I supposed that R1a was born in Europe and all the Indian R* were discovered after to be R2.
    Anyway every result is good for our research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    It's not likely R1a* is a Chaldean line either though.
    After the fall of Babylon, Mesopotamia was ruled, off and on, by Indo-Iranian speaking peoples for ~1000 years. Plenty of time for some "Indo-Iranian" lines to have entered the communities who spoke (and continue to speak) eastern varieties of Aramaic.

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