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Thread: What makes Eurogenes K36 so popular?

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    What makes Eurogenes K36 so popular?

    From what I've seen, Eurogenes K36 seems to be the most popular and trusted calculator (by far) when it comes to using fun tools like determining where you fall on a world map, determining your similarity to ancient populations, etc. Why is that? Are we not putting all our faith in the alleged accuracy of Eurogenes K36 results (and if we are, why do we trust the results so much)?

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    Giving this a little "bump" only because I imagine many people here have been wondering the same thing.

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    Even though its author does not seem to like it very much, the components are remarkable even if their names were very badly chosen, because they correspond to ancient components than our modern countries.

    New calculators, created from ancient genomes, are not very reliable for modern populations. (This is my opinion),.
    For example, English will be close to the Czechs.
    Their components are too old to determine current populations

    The second reason is the large number of averages per country and region collected by LukaszM.
    No other calculator has so much average!
    A good calculator with a large average number around the world! What more could we ask for?
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21+ DF13+ (L1335- DF21- DF49- FGC11134- L513- Z251- Z253- CTS1751- CTS3386- DF41- FGC5496- L371- MC14- S1026- S1051- S16264- Z16500- Z16502- Z255-)
    For my autosomal analyses, see Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex n Harmony View Post
    From what I've seen, Eurogenes K36 seems to be the most popular and trusted calculator (by far) when it comes to using fun tools like determining where you fall on a world map, determining your similarity to ancient populations, etc. Why is that? Are we not putting all our faith in the alleged accuracy of Eurogenes K36 results (and if we are, why do we trust the results so much)?
    For me it compares favorably (once the values are plugged into Tolan's tool http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm) with my family's known genealogical records....mostly British with mother having more Scandinavian and German Ancestors than my father.

    From left to right, father, me, mother.


    Plus K36 results and Tolan's tool let's you create a map.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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    Let's call "good variable" any function (x,y) -----> z whose spatial representation is a more or less deformed half hyperboloid, something like that:
    surfac1.gif

    The "nature" of a good variable does not matter. It can even be absolutely non genetical: if it can be represented in that way ( roughly: a decreasing gradient from a single center), it is a good variable. The statistics of the spaghettis consumption provide likely a good variable, with a center on Italy. Take N good variables, N large enough. 36 is obviously a good N value. You get a good "calculator", and you can start drawing magnificent maps.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    Even though its author does not seem to like it very much, the components are remarkable even if their names were very badly chosen, because they correspond to ancient components than our modern countries.
    Au contraire, I like it very much. And the names are just, well...names. Feel free to change them.

    New calculators, created from ancient genomes, are not very reliable for modern populations. (This is my opinion),.
    For example, English will be close to the Czechs.
    Their components are too old to determine current populations
    Indeed, because when they're properly designed, they precede modern day drift that today separates, say, English from Czechs. Do you see now?

    The second reason is the large number of averages per country and region collected by LukaszM.
    No other calculator has so much average!
    A good calculator with a large average number around the world! What more could we ask for?
    LukaszM has done an awesome job. That's probably because he's Polish, and Polish people are awesome. And I have already rewarded LukaszM indirectly for his efforts.
    Last edited by Generalissimo; 10-21-2017 at 11:36 AM.

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    I like the K36 calculator because of the many regional breakdowns. My results have usually been "boring" in most calculators (typical Russian results with lots of North Atlantic and Baltic and some general Mediterranean/Asian). Here's my K13:
    Population
    North_Atlantic 23.94
    Baltic 45.86
    West_Med 10.66
    West_Asian 4.01
    East_Med 9.12
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 4.83
    Amerindian 1.13
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African 0.34
    Sub-Saharan 0.10

    K36 hints at more specific breakdowns of ancient Southern Europe and Mediterranean regions:
    Population
    Amerindian 0.12
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque -
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 6.68
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 10.14
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 22.12
    East_Med 0.60
    Eastern_Euro 23.23
    Fennoscandian 9.62
    French 1.97
    Iberian 1.40
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 1.82
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 2.51
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 6.34
    North_Caucasian 0.34
    North_Sea 8.41
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian 0.81
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 3.68
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 0.24

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    Quote Originally Posted by tooltime View Post
    I like the K36 calculator because of the many regional breakdowns. My results have usually been "boring" in most calculators (typical Russian results with lots of North Atlantic and Baltic and some general Mediterranean/Asian). Here's my K13:
    Population
    North_Atlantic 23.94
    Baltic 45.86
    West_Med 10.66
    West_Asian 4.01
    East_Med 9.12
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 4.83
    Amerindian 1.13
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African 0.34
    Sub-Saharan 0.10

    K36 hints at more specific breakdowns of ancient Southern Europe and Mediterranean regions:
    Population
    Amerindian 0.12
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque -
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 6.68
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 10.14
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 22.12
    East_Med 0.60
    Eastern_Euro 23.23
    Fennoscandian 9.62
    French 1.97
    Iberian 1.40
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 1.82
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 2.51
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 6.34
    North_Caucasian 0.34
    North_Sea 8.41
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian 0.81
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 3.68
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 0.24
    That may be true, but the more specific and detailed results are, the more inaccurate they're likely to be (or at least that's what I've always read).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Au contraire, I like it very much. And the names are just, well...names. Feel free to change them.



    Indeed, because when they're properly designed, they precede modern day drift that today separates, say, English from Czechs. Do you see now?



    LukaszM has done an awesome job. That's probably because he's Polish, and Polish people are awesome. And I have already rewarded LukaszM indirectly for his efforts.
    One thing I've always found a bit strange is how most of the components are region-specific, while a select few are "country" or "nation" specific (e.g., Armenian, Italian, French). I would imagine this is because those specific components are just that unique. Is that right? For example, given that there are already components for West Caucasian and North Caucasian, can we deduce that the Armenian component is a standalone because the original Armenian community was that much more genetically unique than neighboring Caucasian communities? (I have an Armenian friend who scores 14.68% Armenian, 18.44% North Caucasian, and 11.09% West Caucasian. Does that mean that, per this calculator, she matches an "original" Armenian about 14.68%?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    For me it compares favorably (once the values are plugged into Tolan's tool http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm) with my family's known genealogical records....mostly British with mother having more Scandinavian and German Ancestors than my father.

    From left to right, father, me, mother.


    Plus K36 results and Tolan's tool let's you create a map.
    how did you get the map shading

    and should one remove ( as per right site of the tool ) the areas where ones results bears a zero number ?..........example I get no north-africa results in k36, should I remove north african from the options

    Edit; ....I have North-Italy as the only red square ...........if I remove north-africa from the data because I have no north-africa , my red square shifts to south-germany only
    Last edited by vettor; 10-30-2017 at 04:53 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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