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Thread: Grandparent from the Azores but no Iberian? Possible?

  1. #1
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    Grandparent from the Azores but no Iberian? Possible?

    I'm hoping someone can help me figure this out.

    My husband's maternal grandfather is from the Azores, and has a Portuguese sounding name (Vierra/Veira). His maternal great grandparents were both Portuguese from the Azores. His maternal grandmother (the one who married the guy from the Azores) was a European American (British?German? etc).

    He found out as an adult that the father who raised him is not his biological father, and that his biological father is a guy from Iowa whose family is from Austria.

    He just got his 23andme results back and we were both surprised that there was 0 Iberian, and only about 5% southern European. Almost all of the rest was British, German/French, and about 5% Scandinavian.

    He did have .7% SSA which (I could be wrong) is common among people who have Portuguese ancestors.

    Is it likely that his Portuguese grandfather from the Azores is not actually his grandfather (or that the grandfather was adopted...)? How much Iberian ancestry should someone with one grandparent who is from the Azores have?

    *Editing to add that almost all of the relative locations listed are in the US. The next highest category IS Portugal (34 relatives there), but all of those relatives have lots of Iberian listed
    Last edited by Amandalk; 10-19-2017 at 09:48 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Hello, you can try to find more via Gedmatch, do you know Gedmatch ? Usually Azoreans have several matches from the Islands. If you have 34 listed Portuguese relatives at 23andMe you can try to find their origins and that's a good hint about Portuguese ancestry. A small % of SSA or North African were quite common in the old Portuguese Empire.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amandalk View Post
    I'm hoping someone can help me figure this out.

    My husband's maternal grandfather is from the Azores, and has a Portuguese sounding name (Vierra/Veira). His maternal great grandparents were both Portuguese from the Azores. His maternal grandmother (the one who married the guy from the Azores) was a European American (British?German? etc).

    He found out as an adult that the father who raised him is not his biological father, and that his biological father is a guy from Iowa whose family is from Austria.

    He just got his 23andme results back and we were both surprised that there was 0 Iberian, and only about 5% southern European. Almost all of the rest was British, German/French, and about 5% Scandinavian.

    He did have .7% SSA which (I could be wrong) is common among people who have Portuguese ancestors.

    Is it likely that his Portuguese grandfather from the Azores is not actually his grandfather (or that the grandfather was adopted...)? How much Iberian ancestry should someone with one grandparent who is from the Azores have?

    *Editing to add that almost all of the relative locations listed are in the US. The next highest category IS Portugal (34 relatives there), but all of those relatives have lots of Iberian listed
    Based on what I have read lately, 23andMe latest upgrade of version, V5, is lousy when it comes to Iberian ancestry. Even Spaniards are complaining they are getting low level Iberian now. That is quite a change from 23andMe's previous versions. Anyway, since your husband does show those Portuguese DNA relatives, it's almost certain he does have some Portuguese ancestry. The fact their Iberian is high or higher, is probably related to the version they were tested on.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Luis For This Useful Post:

     Don Felipe (10-20-2017),  Piquerobi (10-20-2017),  tomz (10-19-2017)

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Hello, you can try to find more via Gedmatch, do you know Gedmatch ? Usually Azoreans have several matches from the Islands. If you have 34 listed Portuguese relatives at 23andMe you can try to find their origins and that's a good hint about Portuguese ancestry. A small % of SSA or North African were quite common in the old Portuguese Empire.
    Thanks,

    I do know gedmatch but it seems to be down for the past few hours. I’m new to this- about a month ago I got results for myself on 23andme and then uploaded to gedmatch. My husband just got his. One thing I do not understand is how people know where their gedmatch relatives are from. Due to 23andme’s chip, we need to use Genesis gedmatch -does the regular gedmatch include the ability to explore where relatives are from? I haven’t seen that option on genesis.

  7. #5
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    My mother's paternal grandfather was also from the Azores (Sao Miguel, Ponta Delgada, Faja de Cima). But she also has a 1/4 Southern Italian. Maybe all that German and English you have is affecting your results. I think the matches are the clearest clue. If you're matching nearly pure people from that area then you almost certainly have that ancestry, especially when you have a paper trail. Try GEDMATCH like RCO said.

    Here's my mom's results from 23andme. She ordered back before the FDA came down on them. Not certain the version but pretty old so these aren't exactly applicable to you. Sorry I forgot about that.

    Southern European-48.9%
    Italian-26.9%
    Iberian-8.2%
    Broadly Southern European-13.7%
    Northwestern European-19.4%
    French & German-6.8%
    British & Irish-5.7%
    Broadly Northwestern European-6.9%
    Broadly European-2.7%

    P.S. the Azores scanned all their birth, marriage, death and other church books and put it all online. Great stuff, I don't speak Portuguese but was able to recognize names and dates and other stuff with the help of a translator website. And some of the best birth records list the parents and grandparents and what parish they were all from. So much fun pouring through the records.
    http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.p...s/Default.aspx
    Last edited by Osiris; 10-19-2017 at 11:19 PM. Reason: more info

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis View Post
    Based on what I have read lately, 23andMe latest upgrade of version, V5, is lousy when it comes to Iberian ancestry. Even Spaniards are complaining they are getting low level Iberian now. That is quite a change from 23andMe's previous versions. Anyway, since your husband does show those Portuguese DNA relatives, it's almost certain he does have some Portuguese ancestry. The fact their Iberian is high or higher, is probably related to the version they were tested on.
    Thanks, I didn’t think of that. Wonder if his 23andme results were uploaded somewhere else the results would show some more southern european. It just seems odd that 23andme v5 would make all of the southern european disappear...

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
    My mother's paternal grandfather was also from the Azores (Sao Miguel, Ponta Delgada, Faja de Cima). But she also has a 1/4 Southern Italian. Maybe all that German and English you have is affecting your results. I think the matches are the clearest clue. If you're matching nearly pure people from that area then you almost certainly have that ancestry, especially when you have a paper trail. Try GEDMATCH like RCO said.

    Here's my mom's results from 23andme.
    Southern European-48.9%
    Italian-26.9%
    Iberian-8.2%
    Broadly Southern European-13.7%
    Northwestern European-19.4%
    French & German-6.8%
    British & Irish-5.7%
    Broadly Northwestern European-6.9%
    Broadly European-2.7%

    P.S. the Azores scanned all their birth, marriage, death and other church books and put it all online. Great stuff, I don't speak Portuguese but was able to recognize names and dates and other stuff with the help of a translator website. And some of the best birth records list the parents and grandparents and what parish they were all from. So much fun pouring through the records.
    http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.p...s/Default.aspx
    Woow, super neat - I understand Spanish pretty well, time to fight through Portuguese records. Eep!

  10. #8
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    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    The Gedmatch site is down. You can try several Gedmatch admixture calculators where Portuguese is present. They can easily show if you have Portuguese ancestors (Dodecad, MDLP, Eurogenes) . Let's wait the return.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  11. #9
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    Thanks. Which eurogenes/dodecad/mdlp would you suggest?

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Hello, you can try to find more via Gedmatch, do you know Gedmatch ? Usually Azoreans have several matches from the Islands. If you have 34 listed Portuguese relatives at 23andMe you can try to find their origins and that's a good hint about Portuguese ancestry. A small % of SSA or North African were quite common in the old Portuguese Empire.
    Sorry to divert the thread from the original topic, but I wanted to ask about this SSA/NA in Portuguese people. Ive seen it come as high as 3-5%, where their oracles are usually around 90% Portuguese and the rest north african populations, how did this come to be? colonial admixture?

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