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Thread: J2b2 (J-M241)

  1. #11
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    Oh and about the "Greek" thing. Two interesting developments. First, as I said already, for some reason Jatts say that Gill Jatts are descended from "Greeks" (not necessarily actual Greeks but people of Hellenic civilization who moved eastward).

    On the Global Similarity Map at 23andMe, and also the Interpretome at Stanford's site, I am getting a much closer match to Burusho than typical Jatt admixture. I looked up Burusho and they, too, claim to be descended from Alexander's army. While they look it, they are genetically not greek at all, but J2 is highly represented there (and there's plenty of J2 in the Balkans).

    Just thought it was an interesting coincidence how the tribe I'm from and the closest genetic match both have this weird Greek narrative and have high %s of J2.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    I hear you can transfer your 23andMe results to FtDNA. Could I do that and then order the SNP tests? Or do I have to give them a DNA sample too?
    - You can transfer your 23andMe autosomal results (only) into FTDNA's Family Finder. But this costs $69.

    - You can then order SNPs for $39 each. But since FTDNA will require a DNA sample, your first order must include a shipping charge ($5 within the USA, $7 elsewhere).

    Thus, you are probably better off ordering Y-DNA12, for $49 (plus the shipping charge).

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to lgmayka For This Useful Post:

     Sangarius (08-28-2013)

  4. #13
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    Testing a single SNP costs 39$ ? Hmm.. I wonder how many I would have to test, this J2b2 SNP spreadsheet from the FtDNA M102+ Project shows 16 SNPs:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...6bUc2VUE#gid=0

    Well, at least I shouldn't have to test for M241..

  5. #14
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    By the way what are the current most popular theories about where J2b2 (M241) came from? Middle East or Fertile Crescent? 10,000 years ago or sooner?

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangarius View Post
    Testing a single SNP costs 39$ ? Hmm.. I wonder how many I would have to test, this J2b2 SNP spreadsheet from the FtDNA M102+ Project shows 16 SNPs:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...6bUc2VUE#gid=0

    Well, at least I shouldn't have to test for M241..
    Yeah, these seem like a lot to test for. I'm guessing as a Pakistani I should test for L283, Z2432, Z2433, Y983, Z2443, and Y951 just because there's one other Pakistani in there. That's $234, might as well wait and save money for the full 111 marker test?

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Yeah, these seem like a lot to test for. I'm guessing as a Pakistani I should test for L283, Z2432, Z2433, Y983, Z2443, and Y951 just because there's one other Pakistani in there. That's $234, might as well wait and save money for the full 111 marker test?
    I dont think ftdna offers Z2432 and downstream markers presently . Even you upgarde to 111 markers you may have to wait for more people to get tested to get anything intresting .
    Other known uniparental markers .
    Paternal grandmother's side Ydna - C-K96
    Maternal grandmother's side Ydna- J-L26(possibly J-PF5197)
    Paternal grandfather's mtdna :HV
    Paternal grandmother's father's mtdna : M5a1
    Maternal grandfather's mtdna :M5a

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Yeah, these seem like a lot to test for. I'm guessing as a Pakistani I should test for L283, Z2432, Z2433, Y983, Z2443, and Y951 just because there's one other Pakistani in there. That's $234, might as well wait and save money for the full 111 marker test?
    Maximus of Yfull has analyzed South Asian J2b2.
    Asian J2b2-Tree.


    "NA20885, NA20905 - GIH
    HG03006, HG03908 - BEB
    HG03976, HG03785, HG04239, HG03969 - ITU
    HG03847, HG03696, HG04210, HG03998 - STU
    HG02690 - PJL

    Gujarati Indian in Houston, TX (GIH)
    Punjabi in Lahore, Pakistan (PJL)
    Bengali in Bangladesh (BEB )
    Sri Lankan Tamil in the UK (STU)
    Indian Telegu in the UK (ITU)"
    Among the above the Lankan Tamils have the highest SNP diversity.
    http://eng.molgen.org/download/file....=396&mode=view

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  10. #19
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    Do you think higher SNP diversity is more linked to older age or just larger populations?

  11. #20
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    I think the Eupedia theory of J2b2 coming into India with R1a has a lot of merit now. Compare the heatmap from the first page to these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IE_expansion.png

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iot_spread.png

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:In...an_origins.png

    The J2b2 corresponds to the furthest reaches of the R1a migration/invasion from the North. The only question is why is it at the furthest reaches or fringes? Even that little dot in Swat. Perhaps J2b2 was in the earliest wave and thus propagated to these fringes whereas the R1a movement continued and filled in the rest of Northern and Central India?

    As for when J2b2 got caught up with the R1a, the Kurgan hypothesis indicates that the Indo-Europeans as early as the 3rd Millennium BC went into Neolithic Europe and transformed that farming culture. Farming probably got to Neolithic Europe with the J2b2. Then the blank being filled in is that somehow some of these people from Old Europe came around through Central Asia in the latter half of the 2nd Millennium BC and wound up in northwest Punjab, Northern and Eastern India, and Sindh/Gujarat.

    My ancestry is Jatt (i.e, indigenous peoples of northwestern India commonly reputed to be the most direct or earliest ancestors of the Central Asian people who came into India) from within India, further Southeast, and my genetic admixture shows higher South Indian and low Baloch compared to the other Northwestern populations (meaning either a late trip back up to Punjab and/or they were living in Punjab and not mixing too much with the others). The J2b2 could mean they were very old Jatts who had been in India for over a thousand years. Most of the J2b2 disseminated into the local ethnicities but some might have remained "Jat" and then moved back to Punjab.

    This doesn't rule out the crazy Alexander theories because he happened to conquer precisely these areas and probably had J2b2 people with him which is a real headache.
    Last edited by Dr_McNinja; 08-31-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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