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Thread: Help: are my repeated Mizrahi Jewish Gedmatch predictions legit?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemProf View Post
    George: I would really love to have more people I could match to in order to test this - I guess matches to individuals are a bit more reliable since as you said the Admixtures rely on references populations. Malka is a beautiful name. Queen is "Malekeh" in Farsi, so another variation. It's not usually used as a name, but in e.g. older generation I have a great-aunt called "Malektaj" (Queen throne). My mtDNA haplotype is H11a2, which is very European and uncommon in Iran (but direct matrilineally that is where I go Russian).
    If I remember correctly the name Malka in Hebrew is an older name like Shoshanna (which I really like) too. Have you been able to test the YDNA of a living male connected to your great great grandfather?

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     AJL (10-28-2017)

  3. #12
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    Shoshana is a really nice name as well. Unfortunately, none who are living, or who I have contact details to in any way - I know my immediately family, but these are all the descendants of the daughters, for the sons I only know the names. I really really really wish I could get that information, otherwise it feels like stargazing.

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     George Chandler (10-28-2017)

  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemProf View Post
    Shoshana is a really nice name as well. Unfortunately, none who are living, or who I have contact details to in any way - I know my immediately family, but these are all the descendants of the daughters, for the sons I only know the names. I really really really wish I could get that information, otherwise it feels like stargazing.
    I know..sometimes getting that info is pretty difficult (not mentioning the cross referencing to takes to prove it).

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    Yes exactly. I am already amazed that the GEDMATCH correctly picked up on Azeri/Turkic heritage I didn't even know I had! (but that my mother could confirm). That's pretty good going.

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     George Chandler (10-29-2017)

  8. #15
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    Iranian, Iraqi, Goergian and Azerbaijani Jews often show up for many Iranians/Kurds/Armenians(and the other population is either north Caucasian or south central Asian). It's because these Jews groups share a lot of ancestry with west Asians(Iran ChL and whatnot). Do you know anything about your mother's hometown? That can say a lot about her ethnic group.

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     ChemProf (10-28-2017),  George Chandler (10-29-2017)

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemProf View Post
    Hi George!

    Thanks for taking a look at this. What I am a bit skeptical with the World-22 is that it thinks I am Kurdish until quite far down, but maybe Kurdish and Iranian are just extremely close? What I am most surprised about is that in addition to the e.g. Eurogenes results, I am also getting a lot of Jewish matches, which is why I wonder if there is something to it if it keeps cropping up across the calculators (even in World-22, although quite far down the list)?

    Thanks again,

    Caroline
    Yes, most Kurds and most Iranians are pretty similar witn some minor regional differences.

  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    Iranian, Iraqi, Goergian and Azerbaijani Jews often show up for many Iranians/Kurds/Armenians(and the other population is either north Caucasian or south central Asian). It's because these Jews groups share a lot of ancestry with west Asians(Iran ChL and whatnot). Do you know anything about your mother's hometown? That can say a lot about her ethnic group.
    Unfortunately, she was born and raised in Tehran, which could be anything. So all I have to go by in addition to the admixtures is Russian great-great-grandmothers (sisters to each other) who moved to Iran and changed their name, a lot of Askhenazi Russian matches on both 23andMe and Gedmatch, and a great-great-grandfather with a Jewish name. In life terms the fact that my very chatty family never talked about these women's background or why they felt the need to both change their names etc would not disagree too much with the previously suggested crypto-Jew possibility. It's something I wondered about for a long time, and then saw it come up in the Admixtures a lot this made me particularly curious. I am frequently also mistaken for Israeli, particularly by Egyptians and Lebanese people, but I always chalked that down to this being what happens to the child if you mix a Swede and an Iranian. It's very curious to me.

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     George Chandler (10-29-2017)

  13. #18
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    Mirza might come from Miriam -- but Maryam is also a Persian name so it doesn't make so much sense.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemProf View Post
    PS AJL: we have a very close haplogroup - I saw you are H11a2a3, I am H11a2, when I did more detailed analysis on it closest match was H11a2a2 followed by H11a2a3, but I don't match either fully.
    My H11a2a3 line is actually German. If I recall correctly there are some H11a2a2 Finns, Ukrainians, and Russians, so my guess for the direct line would be not Ashkenazi.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  15. #20
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    OK, that would make sense, because one of the Russian great-great-grandmothers is direct descent matrilineal. I cross-posted this on Forum Biodiversity at the same time, since I had no idea what response times would be on these forums, so I am having two conversations in parallel Someone suggested triangulating and gave me GEDMATCH IDs to test, but there is unfortunately a legacy/genesis issue. I went for the next best thing and tried among my matches. These are people who are all estimated MRCA 4-5 generations from me, which would tie in timeline wise with my Russian great-great-grandmothers (they were sisters, and then their daughters' children who were first cousins to each other again married and are my grandparents, so they are over-represented in my immediate family tree despite being 4 generations back). Person #3 from top of my GEDMATCH matches had obvious last name Cohen, so I did a "people who match both kits" against this person, and ran all through Eurogenes K13. This gave a cluster of 11 people, and we are both related to all of them within 1 generation difference. Everyone on that cluster is coming up as either Ashkenazi or Sephardi (Algeria/Libya mostly when Sephardi). I tried moving to other clusters, I got for example another cluster of 18 where both kits matched, all again Ashkenazi or Sephardi, a bit of overlap with the first cluster but also new people, and another cluster of 8 where both kits matched, all again Askhenazi or Sephardi. So there are at least three clusters of Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews on GEDMATCH (>10 people) who are related to each other within the clusters, overlap between the clusters, and I am a common factor between these clusters. It's a small sample size because it takes ages to check each of these people, and there is a limit to how OCD I want to go about this, but how likely is that to be a fluke? I mean, the matching algorithm could be completely wrong and I am not related to these people in any way at all, but...

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     George Chandler (10-29-2017)

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