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Thread: Is haplogroup M1 Basal Eurasian?

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    Is haplogroup M1 Basal Eurasian?

    Apparently, there's a group called 'Basal Eurasian' that lowered Neanderthal admixture in West Eurasians, could it be from a group that was high in M1 and was isolated from other Eurasians before Neanderthal admixture occurred?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    Apparently, there's a group called 'Basal Eurasian' that lowered Neanderthal admixture in West Eurasians, could it be from a group that was high in M1 and was isolated from other Eurasians before Neanderthal admixture occurred?
    Yes I would say so in a sense.

    But the way Basal Eurasian is currently defined - no. Basal Eurasian is defines as that part of OoA West Eurasian ancestry that is not shared with ENA. In that sense M1 would not be Basal Eurasian since M1 is indeed found among the ENA derived population in Tibet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes I would say so in a sense.

    But the way Basal Eurasian is currently defined - no. Basal Eurasian is defines as that part of OoA West Eurasian ancestry that is not shared with ENA. In that sense M1 would not be Basal Eurasian since M1 is indeed found among the ENA derived population in Tibet.
    M1 in Northeast Africa seems to be associated with Southwest Asian autosomal DNA. No links with East Asia really.

    If I had to guess, I'd say M1 may be linked to Basal Eurasian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    M1 in Northeast Africa seems to be associated with Southwest Asian autosomal DNA. No links with East Asia really.

    If I had to guess, I'd say M1 may be linked to Basal Eurasian.
    SW Asian is a modern component.

    M1 is a >60000 year old branch.

    Basal Eurasian as defined is a ~60000 year old split from ENA. By definition, just pre time of split Basal Eurasian=ENA.

    I was referring to the 60000 year old Basal Eurasian - ENA split that has nothing to do with modern SW Asian which has drifted 60000 years from Basal Eurasian as have current east Asians from ENA.

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    How exactly do we know the age of M1? An older paper I read regarding African mtdna claimed M1 was around 40,000 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TuaMan View Post
    How exactly do we know the age of M1? An older paper I read regarding African mtdna claimed M1 was around 40,000 years old.
    The paper is likely correct as far as African M1's TMRCA.
    Branching is close to the root of M, though I have read that there may be a shared mutation with some SE Asian M.
    "The detection in southeast Asia of new lineages that share with M1 the 14110 substitution [90, 91], gave rise to the definition of a new macrohaplogroup named M1′20′51 by PhyloTree.org Build 16 [44]. However, this substitution is not an invariable position (Additional file 2: Table S2) and, therefore, its sharing by common ancestry is not warranted [36]."
    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.co...862-016-0816-8

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    The paper is likely correct as far as African M1's TMRCA.
    Is there some reason to think the Asian TMRCA would be higher? I know of an M1 in Tibet, but it is M1b2, found also in North Africa, Southern Europe, and Iraq. All Eurasian samples from Pennarun et al are within M1a or M1b. Behar et al's estimated TMRCA for M1 is 24 000 years (plus or minus lots), Pennarun et al's is 26 000 (18-35 000) years. M1a and M1b both around 20-21 000 (13-28 000) years.

    Why on earth would M1 be >60 000 years old?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Is there some reason to think the Asian TMRCA would be higher? I know of an M1 in Tibet, but it is M1b2, found also in North Africa, Southern Europe, and Iraq. All Eurasian samples from Pennarun et al are within M1a or M1b. Behar et al's estimated TMRCA for M1 is 24 000 years (plus or minus lots), Pennarun et al's is 26 000 (18-35 000) years. M1a and M1b both around 20-21 000 (13-28 000) years.

    Why on earth would M1 be >60 000 years old?
    I am looking at M1 branching point under M as being 60000 years old, not M1's TMRCA.

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    Oh, okay. That was confusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes I would say so in a sense.

    But the way Basal Eurasian is currently defined - no. Basal Eurasian is defines as that part of OoA West Eurasian ancestry that is not shared with ENA. In that sense M1 would not be Basal Eurasian since M1 is indeed found among the ENA derived population in Tibet.
    But I don't understand why this means they couldn't have carried M1. Can you explain? If the M1 branched so long ago, isn't it possible that modern groups of very different ancestries could have the same haplogroup? Forgive me, I'm not well informed on the nomenclature for haplogroups (not anymore at least), but don't Y DNA E and Y DNA D have that kind of relationship; being found in vastly different populations despite having a like origin (DE)?
    Defeat is a state of mind; no one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality. ~ Bruce Lee

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