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Thread: R1b in the Syriac and Yazidi folks of the Near East

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    R1b in the Syriac and Yazidi folks of the Near East

    R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

    Syriac - 30.23%
    Yazidi - 20.79%

    "A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0187408

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

    Syriac - 30.23%
    Yazidi - 20.79%

    "A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0187408
    Is there any indication of their subclade? Do we know if they are M269?

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    Where there found M269- carriers? If yes what clades and in what population?

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    M269- is found at low frequency among European and Middle Eastern groups. Most of these guys are probably M269+ and similar subclades to Assyrians and Armenians, but that covers a lot of branches and is just an educated guess.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

    Syriac - 30.23%
    Yazidi - 20.79%

    "A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0187408
    Mike. With regard to the "Syriacs." Syriac is a collective term used by some to refer to Assyrians ("Nestorian"), Chaldeans (Catholic), and Aramaeans (Orthodox). Most of the R1b will presumably be of the Z2103 variety.

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    The samples were only tested for the 17 Yfiler STRs; they used the Athley and Nevgen predictors for their haplogroup assignments.

    If anyone wants to take a stab at more precise haplogroup assignments, you'll want to open up Table S1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swid View Post
    The samples were only tested for the 17 Yfiler STRs; they used the Athley and Nevgen predictors for their haplogroup assignments.

    If anyone wants to take a stab at more precise haplogroup assignments, you'll want to open up Table S1.
    For the haplotypes that look R1b among the Yazidi samples, I see a lot of DYS392=14 which might be characteristic of L277 branch. Definitely would need a deeper look rather than just eyeballing 1 marker though.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    M269- is found at low frequency among European and Middle Eastern groups. Most of these guys are probably M269+ and similar subclades to Assyrians and Armenians, but that covers a lot of branches and is just an educated guess.
    Yes, I am actually interested in L389+ (, but still M269- not V88 or other clades). However Nevgen predicts these carriers wrong as belonging to haplogroup Q (Athey predictor predicts it correct).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnid View Post
    Yes, I am actually interested in L389+ (, but still M269- not V88 or other clades). However Nevgen predicts these carriers wrong as belonging to haplogroup Q (Athey predictor predicts it correct).
    I believe there is a group of Syriacs who are L389+ (xM269) in the Iraq project. Here again, it's probably a minority and M269+ will be the majority in all tested groups to date, with the exception of V88 which is a back migration to Africa.

    The alleged "Albanian" cluster of L23->CTS9219 is also found in Iraqi populations, so I'd be curious on that one. I can't read Arabic, so I don't know their ethnic affiliation.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 11-06-2017 at 09:19 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post

    The alleged "Albanian" cluster of L23->CTS9219 is also found in Iraqi populations, so I'd be curious on that one. I can't read Arabic, so I don't know their ethnic affiliation.
    Only few samples on the Iraqi Project of such variety, so most likely of Balkan (Albanian) origin. Albanians were pretty active in the near east all the way to Egypt as mercenaries, merchants and even as statesmen during Ottoman empire.

    Also sample Ar-M062 on this study looks like a typical CTS9219>BY611, an Arab this time.
    Last edited by Skerdilaidas; 11-07-2017 at 02:01 PM.

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