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    Lightbulb The Hungarians - Magyars

    DNA-genealogy of tatar surnames — 6. Vol. 2-nd. Saetgarievs, Yurmi clan and ancient Hungarians (Magyars)


    These Magyars are nice and prominent people;
    Their clothes are made of brocade, their weapons are of silver ...
    (Abu-Said Abu-al-Khaya Zohak Gardisi)






    A more detailed DNA test of the Y-chromosome of the Saetgarievs [1] indicated the belonging of his clan to the N-M2783 line. While the Baltic-Finnish snp Z17078 at the Saetgarievs in the minuse. The haplotype and snps of Saetgariev, in my opinion, point to the East-Finnish (Volga) origin and common roots of his clan with Bashkirian Yurmi and Hungarian tribe Ker.

    Other researchers [2], according to the DNA test, think that the Saitgariev haplotype are the South Baltic origin, referring to the supposedly ancient migration of Balts to the Volga region.

    There are no Tatar N-M2783+ among matches to Saetgariev. But have the Hungarians from the N-M2783+ of the Czech Republic much more related than Tatars from the same subclass, and the time of the life's common ancestor Saetgariev clan with the Hungarians about 1,200 years ago. Even if we assume that the Saitgarievs are directly related to the late migration of Finns from the Baltic to the Volga region, then the Balto-Finns in the Volga region were to take part in the ancient Hungarian confederation of tribes, because the M2783 line is present have among the Hungarians. Proceeding from the fact that the ancestors of the Finns moved to Europe from the Urals, it is more logical to assume that the line M2783 is connected initially with the eastern (Volga) Finns, and some of the descendants of this line reached the Baltic from the Volga and the Urals, and not vice versa.





    Map 1. Lines N-L1034 + (Ugric cluster), N-M2783 + (Finnish cluster), R1a-Z280 + (Sarmatian-Ural cluster of Balto-Slavic origin) in the ethnogenesis of ancient Hungarians







    Yurmi by origin is a Finnish clan [10a], and not Ugric tribe in the composition of the Magyars of the Urals. The eastern-Finnish origin of yurmi is indicated by ethnic parallels with the Danube Bulgarians - the clan Ermi [10b], and the anthroponym Yurmekey in the tribal structure of the Chuvash [11]. In the ethnogenesis of the Chuvashes, the Finnish tribes of the Volga region also took part. The ethnonym Yūrma [12] itself is associated with the resettlement of the Finns from the Urals and now occurs from the Urals to Finland, for example, the toponym of Jūrmala in the Baltic.


    The version that the clan of the Saetgarievs is closely interrelated with the Bashkirian Yurmi relies in particular on such facts: a) that the tribal line of the Saetgarievs have name Teptar, and Teptar clan are part of the Bashkirian Yurmi; b) the territory of the settlement of the Yurmi clan also in the Tuymazinsky District of Bashkortostan [19], from where the ancestors of the Saetgarievs themselves. But in the Tuymazinsky district of Bashkortostan there live also Bashkirs-Eney [20], whose roots are also interconnected with the Hungarians of the Danube.


    Look at this article in russian language
    Last edited by Bulat; 11-08-2017 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Jūrmala
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    Have Hungarians or ancient Magyars been tested for N-P43?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonius View Post
    Have Hungarians or ancient Magyars been tested for N-P43?
    i don't know about ancient Hungarians with N-P43. But i know - the Modern Hungarians have N-P43 clade. N-P43 is a Samoedic origin clade.
    Last edited by Bulat; 11-22-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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    Mitogenomic data indicate admixture components of Asian Hun and Srubnaya origin in the Hungarian Conquerors

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...50688.full.pdf

    It has been widely accepted that the Finno-Ugric Hungarian language, originated from proto Uralic people, was brought into the Carpathian Basin by the Hungarian Conquerors. From the middle of the 19th century this view prevailed against the deep-rooted Hungarian Hun tradition, maintained in folk memory as well as in Hungarian and foreign written medieval sources, which claimed that Hungarians were kinsfolk of the Huns. In order to shed light on the genetic origin of the Conquerors we sequenced 102 mitogenomes from early Conqueror cemeteries and compared them to sequences of all available databases.


    The possible genetic relation of modern Hungarians to Finno-Ugric groups was tested in several studies [6–8], however all these found Hungarians being genetically unrelated to Uralic people. One of the latest studies [9] reported that a Y-chromosome haplogroup (N-L1034) is shared between 4% of the Hungarian Seklers (Hungarian-speaking ethnic group living in Transylvania) and 15% of the closest language relatives the Mansis, though the same marker is also present in Central Asian Uzbeks and has been detected just in one Hungarian [10]. These results indicated that Uralic genetic links hardly exist in modern Hungarians.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/01/19/250688

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    Quote Originally Posted by gravetti View Post
    Mitogenomic data indicate admixture components of Asian Hun and Srubnaya origin in the Hungarian Conquerors

    It has been widely accepted that the Finno-Ugric Hungarian language, originated from proto Uralic people, was brought into the Carpathian Basin by the Hungarian Conquerors (...)
    The term "Finno-Ugric" in linguistics afaik originated/took off in the 18th and 19th centuries and to my own knowledge there was never a Finno-Ugric Urvolk as such nor a definite Finno-Ugric origin language in the strict sense of the term.

    Sumerian was just as agglutinative as Hungarian, and Sumerian words and word formations are strikingly similar to Hungarian in many respects - The Sumerian language has been the leading language of the Middle East for millennia of course. The development of an agglutinating language with the consistent vocabulary derived from Hungarian is a relatively long process, therefore it can overall be assumed that Hungarian is a very ancient language.

    A while ago i found an interesting post on this too, can't remember where it was from but here are its contents:

    Some historians believe that Hungarians (Savard Hungarians) at one point in time lived around the Caucasus region and were joined by a few caucasian tribes that eventually travelled with them to Hungary. It is also mentioned that Hungarians lived nearby Iranian peoples and were influenced by Iranian tribes and some very old Iranian words are still evident in the Hungarian language.
    Although the Finnish language is also agglutinating and stable, it shows too many differences to Hungarian. The number of consonants is noticeably low in Finnish, in Hungarian there are about 14 consonants more than in Finnish. On the other hand, Finnish is relatively rich in vowels, the number of vowels is roughly equal to the Hungarian. The vocabulary of the two languages ​​is very different aswell - There are hardly similar words with the same meaning abundantly found. Finnish and Estonian are roughly similar to High German and Dutch, whereas Hungarian is very different from both. There are a lot of similar words with Turkish from the general life, agriculture, biology, u. a. (eg, teve, balta, bika, sok, kicsi, etc.) so in that respect there definitely seems to be a strong connection, perhaps derived from the bulgar migrations and the contacts between the Magyars and turkic Chuvash tribes.

    It must be considered that just as agglutinating as Hungarian are Hunnish (very close to Hungarian in the vocabulary) Basque, the Turkic languages, Persian and the ancient Egyptian language. There are some striking similarities in logic with the Japanese and the Manchurian language, probably due to Ainu (Hunnic) mediation too.

    There is undoubtedly a connection to the Finnish and Estonian languages, but the connections are much broader in nature than some of those die-hard pan-turanist/"finno-ugric" ideologues like to pretend.

    Modern-day DNA studies have also shown that austrians and hungarians are basically cousins genetically speaking. Of course there are still examples that differ from this but the overall evidence cannot be denied imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hans84 View Post
    The term "Finno-Ugric" in linguistics afaik originated/took off in the 18th and 19th centuries and to my own knowledge there was never a Finno-Ugric Urvolk as such nor a definite Finno-Ugric origin language in the strict sense of the term.
    How about reading some related academic research? Of course there was a Uralic "Urvolk" and they indeed spoke Proto Uralic, apparently somewhere next to Volga-Kama area. That being said, most of Hungarian genes were apparently not inherited from those people. See, genes don't dictate languages, even if it sounds complicated to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    How about reading some related academic research? Of course there was a Uralic "Urvolk" and they indeed spoke Proto Uralic, apparently somewhere next to Volga-Kama area. See, genes don't dictate languages, even if it sounds complicated to you.
    No need to employ ad hominem/get insulting there just because you disagree with some of the contents of my post.

    That being said, most of Hungarian genes were apparently not inherited from those people.
    Yes, that is what i was saying in my post if you had cared to read it fully instead of getting emotional right off the bat. Hence, the entire pan-turanist/turanist (which includes a finno-ugric component) ideology falls apart at the seams when you consider these findings which i mentioned.

    There is ample evidence that hungarians are genetically not really related in the way it's being claimed by some to "finno-ugrics" either so not sure what you're trying to get at anyways.

    I'm not denying you your national heritage or anything, i just find it ludicrous to suggest that finns and hungarians derived from the exact same people/shared the exact same origins (genetic, geographic or otherwise) just becaue of some vague lingual links. Again, reading the post you responded to fully would probably clear up any remaining confusion on your part in this regard.
    Last edited by hans84; 02-03-2019 at 12:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hans84 View Post
    No need to employ ad hominem/get insulting there just because you disagree with some of the contents of my post.
    Not just some, most of that what you write does not make a lot of sense. Or actually any sense, now that I reread some of that stuff.

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    Another observation [of this study] is that “Austria and Germany, despite both being German speaking, have quite different Y-DNA groups. However, Austria and Hungary look remarkably similar.”

    It was this reference to the Austrian genetic connection that excited Hungarians. It seems that the Austrians are more than “in-laws” (sógorok), as they are called in Hungary, which of course is a reference to the long-standing constitutional relationship that existed between Austria and Hungary. They are in fact brothers and most likely sisters as far as their DNA makeup is concerned.
    http://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/05...n-great-plain/

    (...) "It is most likely that by the end of the thirteenth century the Asian markers pretty well disappeared from the population mix."
    https://hungarianspectrum.wordpress....-then-and-now/


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    Another myth debunked. Thank you for sharing.
    European issues on History ,Anthropology, Politics, Race, Culture & Traditions:'
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