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Thread: The Hungarians - Magyars

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    Lightbulb The Hungarians - Magyars

    DNA-genealogy of tatar surnames — 6. Vol. 2-nd. Saetgarievs, Yurmi clan and ancient Hungarians (Magyars)


    These Magyars are nice and prominent people;
    Their clothes are made of brocade, their weapons are of silver ...
    (Abu-Said Abu-al-Khaya Zohak Gardisi)






    A more detailed DNA test of the Y-chromosome of the Saetgarievs [1] indicated the belonging of his clan to the N-M2783 line. While the Baltic-Finnish snp Z17078 at the Saetgarievs in the minuse. The haplotype and snps of Saetgariev, in my opinion, point to the East-Finnish (Volga) origin and common roots of his clan with Bashkirian Yurmi and Hungarian tribe Ker.

    Other researchers [2], according to the DNA test, think that the Saitgariev haplotype are the South Baltic origin, referring to the supposedly ancient migration of Balts to the Volga region.

    There are no Tatar N-M2783+ among matches to Saetgariev. But have the Hungarians from the N-M2783+ of the Czech Republic much more related than Tatars from the same subclass, and the time of the life's common ancestor Saetgariev clan with the Hungarians about 1,200 years ago. Even if we assume that the Saitgarievs are directly related to the late migration of Finns from the Baltic to the Volga region, then the Balto-Finns in the Volga region were to take part in the ancient Hungarian confederation of tribes, because the M2783 line is present have among the Hungarians. Proceeding from the fact that the ancestors of the Finns moved to Europe from the Urals, it is more logical to assume that the line M2783 is connected initially with the eastern (Volga) Finns, and some of the descendants of this line reached the Baltic from the Volga and the Urals, and not vice versa.





    Map 1. Lines N-L1034 + (Ugric cluster), N-M2783 + (Finnish cluster), R1a-Z280 + (Sarmatian-Ural cluster of Balto-Slavic origin) in the ethnogenesis of ancient Hungarians







    Yurmi by origin is a Finnish clan [10a], and not Ugric tribe in the composition of the Magyars of the Urals. The eastern-Finnish origin of yurmi is indicated by ethnic parallels with the Danube Bulgarians - the clan Ermi [10b], and the anthroponym Yurmekey in the tribal structure of the Chuvash [11]. In the ethnogenesis of the Chuvashes, the Finnish tribes of the Volga region also took part. The ethnonym Yūrma [12] itself is associated with the resettlement of the Finns from the Urals and now occurs from the Urals to Finland, for example, the toponym of Jūrmala in the Baltic.


    The version that the clan of the Saetgarievs is closely interrelated with the Bashkirian Yurmi relies in particular on such facts: a) that the tribal line of the Saetgarievs have name Teptar, and Teptar clan are part of the Bashkirian Yurmi; b) the territory of the settlement of the Yurmi clan also in the Tuymazinsky District of Bashkortostan [19], from where the ancestors of the Saetgarievs themselves. But in the Tuymazinsky district of Bashkortostan there live also Bashkirs-Eney [20], whose roots are also interconnected with the Hungarians of the Danube.


    Look at this article in russian language
    Last edited by Bulat; 11-08-2017 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Jūrmala
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    Have Hungarians or ancient Magyars been tested for N-P43?

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     Bulat (11-22-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonius View Post
    Have Hungarians or ancient Magyars been tested for N-P43?
    i don't know about ancient Hungarians with N-P43. But i know - the Modern Hungarians have N-P43 clade. N-P43 is a Samoedic origin clade.
    Last edited by Bulat; 11-22-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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    Mitogenomic data indicate admixture components of Asian Hun and Srubnaya origin in the Hungarian Conquerors

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...50688.full.pdf

    It has been widely accepted that the Finno-Ugric Hungarian language, originated from proto Uralic people, was brought into the Carpathian Basin by the Hungarian Conquerors. From the middle of the 19th century this view prevailed against the deep-rooted Hungarian Hun tradition, maintained in folk memory as well as in Hungarian and foreign written medieval sources, which claimed that Hungarians were kinsfolk of the Huns. In order to shed light on the genetic origin of the Conquerors we sequenced 102 mitogenomes from early Conqueror cemeteries and compared them to sequences of all available databases.


    The possible genetic relation of modern Hungarians to Finno-Ugric groups was tested in several studies [6–8], however all these found Hungarians being genetically unrelated to Uralic people. One of the latest studies [9] reported that a Y-chromosome haplogroup (N-L1034) is shared between 4% of the Hungarian Seklers (Hungarian-speaking ethnic group living in Transylvania) and 15% of the closest language relatives the Mansis, though the same marker is also present in Central Asian Uzbeks and has been detected just in one Hungarian [10]. These results indicated that Uralic genetic links hardly exist in modern Hungarians.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/01/19/250688

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    Another myth debunked. Thank you for sharing.
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    In genetic terms, the structure of the Ugric root population and the Uralic root population are still open questions. In general, there is not much interest in this matter as we still have zero ancient DNA from the Uralic area and we have no autosomal analysis of any relevant ancient population. At the moment, we cannot compare the modern Hungarians with any ancient Ugric speaking population.

    Y DNA is not enough. It is certainly wrong to think that the Ugric root population was 100% yDNA N. We have yDNA from the probably Ugric-speaking Sargat culture in Western Siberia, and it is an admixture of yDNA N 5/7 and R1a1 (2/7) (https://www.researchgate.net/publica...estern_Siberia). However, the amount of N was surely much higher in Western Siberia than on the Central Asian steppe where Hungarians were allies of the Turks.

    According to Wikipedia, the ethnonym Ungri comes from Oghur-Turkic On-Ogur (meaning "ten [tribes of the] Ogurs"), the collective name for the tribes which later joined the Bulgar tribal confederacy that ruled the eastern parts of Hungary after the Avars. The Hungarians probably belonged to the Onogur tribal alliance.

    If we would like to find out the possible share of the Proto-Hungarian DNA in modern Hungarians, we should get a sample from the ancient Onogur Hungarians.

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    The Árpád (Arpad) dynasty is R1a-Z93.They belong to subgroup Z2123.

    Article in Hungarian:

    https://mttmuzeum.blog.hu/2018/08/29...tm_source=kult


    https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-018-0609-7
    Last edited by gravetti; 09-04-2018 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gravetti View Post
    The Árpád (Arpad) dynasty is R1a-Z93.They belong to subgroup Z2123.

    Article in Hungarian:

    https://mttmuzeum.blog.hu/2018/08/29...tm_source=kult


    https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-018-0609-7
    Oh, Z2123!

    Arpad from Aorsen-Sarmatian origin. Thanks
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    Wasn't there a study about R1a among Hungarians, which claimed Z93 is almost non existent among them. It is found occasionally among Hungarian Seklers and Gypsies only. R1a among modern Hungarian is overwhelmingly from Slavic origin.

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    Three possibilities...

    1.As these Magyars were migrating they gradually absorbed a lot of Eastern European Dna into their population on the way, but their language persisted.
    2.They originally had relatively the same genetic make up as they do today prior to the migration from a pretty far away place, even though they didn't speak a Slavic or even an IE language.
    3.At some point the language was imposed by the "elites" for some sort of cultural, religious and political reasons, and those elites couldn't have been the nomad, pagan war gangs from the 9th century invading and raiding Europe. I don't see how they would cause the language shift on a much bigger population or why they would even care for that matter, those invading war gangs which didn't leave much of a genetic trace could only melt into the population or eventually get exterminated by their enemies.

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