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Thread: Khas Paharis?

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    If you notice Indian Punjabis speaking punjabi, they use J instead of Z, while Pak Punjabis (especially urban urdu speaking ones) tend to lean on Z instead of J.
    Bengalis also don't have Z in their language

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Bengalis also don't have Z in their language
    That's true for Nadia standard Bengali (ie standard Bengali).

    Most of the Eastern dialects use alot of fricatives, to the point that in Sylheti the following sound changes are standard:

    J > Z (zani - I know)
    P/Ph > F (fagol - mad)
    K/Kh > X (xoro - you do)
    Ch/Chh > S (suto - small)

    And even
    S/Sh > H (hukna - dry)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    That's true for Nadia standard Bengali (ie standard Bengali).

    Most of the Eastern dialects use alot of fricatives, to the point that in Sylheti the following sound changes are standard:

    J > Z (zani - I know)
    P/Ph > F (fagol - mad)
    K/Kh > X (xoro - you do)
    Ch/Chh > S (suto - small)

    And even
    S/Sh > H (hukna - dry)
    Well Standard Bengali is what I am used to because my father grew up in Asansol, Howrah and Kolkata.

    Sylheti is probably a different case altogether.

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    Problem is when one tries to produce a sound which is not naturally and easily producible by human vocal cords, unless these skills are learned in childhood, that will naturally cause these changes to happen as the sounds of B, V, W, also of g, j, y, z are too close each other. I have seen some have difficulties with F/S/SH, also B/P.
    Last edited by Jatt1; 01-27-2021 at 06:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Just guessing here, but I wonder if that is due to English's "Z" pronounciation rather than Urdu's historic influence. More educated folks would have been taught to pronounce "Z" properly, especially the educated seem to be from British-era missionary schools.



    Being a native Nepali speaker, we have all 4. J instead of Z in all instances, B instead of V in most, Sa instead of Sh and O instead of A in many instances. Even to this day, I have hard time pronouncing "Sh". It is just S.
    What's diff between J and Z? Both look same to me. That's pretty native thing. I dont know any Nepali speaker using Sh so far except a few who lived in India.
    Last edited by kaazi; 01-28-2021 at 03:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaazi View Post
    What's diff between J and Z? Both look same to me. That's pretty native thing. I dont know any Nepali speaker using Sh so far except a few who lived in India.
    Indians have Y, J, Z and even G like in Janana(Gyanna) and then they have S, SH and SHH. And that all makes it more complicated and require extra skills and effort my the speaker and results in mistakes and variability among the speakers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Indians have Y, J, Z and even G like in Janana(Gyanna) and then they have S, SH and SHH. And that all makes it more complicated and require extra skills and effort my the speaker and results in mistakes and variability among the speakers.
    Consonants like ṭa, /ʈ/ are almost impossible for English or even any non-SouthAsian to pronounce.

    Apparently, it is called a voiceless retroflex plosive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voicel...roflex_plosive

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  13. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    There's a couple of consonant shifts that are quite typical between IA Iranic (Avestan) and Indo-Aryan (Sanskrit), including (in the same order):

    • z <-> h
    • h <-> s
    • x/kh <-> k
    • s/z <-> j


    So, for instance, with that cheat-sheet in mind, an Avestan enthusiast could readily transform Av. ahura (Lord), zanu (knee) and haoma (ephedra) into the Sanskrit equivalents (asura, janu, soma).

    Pretty sure parasar knows this, so pointing that out to the others.

    Linguists have accurately played the same game with entire sentences of Old Avestan and the Rg Veda to recreate a perfect "translation" of the other side.
    The vocalism and consonantism differentiate the Dacian and Thracian languages.[220]
    vocalism: The vowel sounds used in a language.
    consonantism: The consonants, sequence of consonants, or the quality peculiar to the consonants of a given word or group of words


    Is what you mentioned about Sanskrit and Avestan that differentiate the two, is it considered as differences resulting from vocalism and consonatism?



    If the difference between the two languages is vocalism and consonantism.

    Are the two languages considered dialects? different languages with a family ? or different languages belonging to different sub - families?




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacians#Language
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vocalism
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/consonantism#English
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 04-06-2021 at 12:29 PM.

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