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Thread: Confirming paper trail with DNA

  1. #1
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    Confirming paper trail with DNA

    I am waiting for the results from an autosomal SNP test that I took to confirm an ancestor, Mary. Years ago I had taken an autosomal STR test for the same purpose because it was suppose to be deep. I thought that the STR test had confirmed that Mary was either not Native American or Mary was not my ancestor, and then I found out that the data set used excluded Eastern Natives.

    I had been told early on that my father’s line had Native American in it. It did not mater to me till paper let me to Mary. Mary, about 1695-1726/70, is one of my seventh great-grandmothers. She lived in Monmouth County New Jersey and is of the Algonquin speaking Lenni-Lanape according to the work Applegates in America by Hugh Vorhees. She lived during the period when a lot of the surviving Lenape migrated out of the then English colony of New Jersey.

    I am thinking that the best I can do with the autosomal SNP test results is to connect with others that think they descend from Mary, since she is eight steps from me (too old).
    Are there other uses for the SNP data as it pertains to Mary?

    Paternal: R-L2 English
    Maternal: T2b sub 15 probably English
    Last edited by ApplegateJ1; 08-27-2013 at 05:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hello,

    If you find an overlapping segment in common with someone who descends from Mary you can also analyze it for ancestry with a tool like Gedmatch or Dr McDonald's BGA program. If multiple analyses suggest the block of DNA common to you is Native American (or Asian) then you have strong evidence that Mary was Lenape.

    You may not have received any autosomes from Mary that far back, but then again you may have.

    Imcidentally I also have NJ ancestry, mainly Somerset/Hunterdon/Morris counties, from the early 18th century. It's not the easiest time and place to get records from, but it's not the worst either.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    It took a while but, I found an auDNA sample with a linage that includes Mary. The in common block is surprisingly small, just 5 cM. I don’t see any options at Gedmatch that would analyze our blocks for ancestry. Am I overlooking something?

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    It took a while but, I found an auDNA sample with a linage that includes Mary. The in common block is surprisingly small, just 5 cM. I donít see any options at Gedmatch that would analyze our blocks for ancestry. Am I overlooking something?

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    At GEDmatch using the 3D chromosome browser, I found that our kits only have a half matched 5 cM block on chromosome 21. Then using the Eurogenes K13 compare a single chromosome, we both have a spike of Amerindian between the 37M an 38M marks and that spike is in common. Is that enough to say that Mary is or is propably native or do I need to find a third descendant of Mary?
    Maternal GenBank ~JF979034
    Paternal Z142-, L562+, Z51+.
    Mix via paper: 20.7% Engish, 14% Irish, 13.3% Dutch, 5.5% Scottish, 1.8% Welsh, 1.6% German, .2% Native, ? Indian.
    via FTDNA PF: W Euro 95.63, M East 4.37
    via FTDNA MO: British Isles 61, Scandinavia 32, Ashkenazi/Poland 5, Anatolia & Caucasus 2.
    via Geno: 44 N Euro, 36 Med, 17 SW Asia. ref pop: UK, Germ.

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    Can you post a pic? Is the rest of the 5cm shared block euro?

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    SEGMENT.JPG
    It is Baltic and some East Asian.
    Probably easier to see at GEDmatch the kit #s are A165325 and FN90964.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ApplegateJ1; 10-04-2014 at 03:38 AM.
    Maternal GenBank ~JF979034
    Paternal Z142-, L562+, Z51+.
    Mix via paper: 20.7% Engish, 14% Irish, 13.3% Dutch, 5.5% Scottish, 1.8% Welsh, 1.6% German, .2% Native, ? Indian.
    via FTDNA PF: W Euro 95.63, M East 4.37
    via FTDNA MO: British Isles 61, Scandinavia 32, Ashkenazi/Poland 5, Anatolia & Caucasus 2.
    via Geno: 44 N Euro, 36 Med, 17 SW Asia. ref pop: UK, Germ.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplegateJ1 View Post
    It took a while but, I found an auDNA sample with a linage that includes Mary. The in common block is surprisingly small, just 5 cM. I donít see any options at Gedmatch that would analyze our blocks for ancestry. Am I overlooking something?
    Remember also that if this block is from Mary, and if Mary was in fact Native American, you're not necessarily looking at your total inheritance from her on either side. You're simply looking at a region of overlap with a fellow descendant.

    When you're talking about ancestors this far back, it's true that there are many with whom you won't share any DNA. But you always have to keep in mind the fact that no matter how removed a generation is, you have to share 100% of your DNA with at least a subset of the genealogical ancestors in that generation.

    I share DNA with several other descendants of Magdeleine Pany Baudreau, who was born in French Louisiana in 1708. In the record of Magdeleine's marriage, she is identified as the daughter of Jean Baptiste Baudreau -- one of the earlier European settlers of the area -- and an unnamed Indian woman. I say "unnamed", though it depends on whether Jean Baptiste Baudreau II's mother and Magdeleine's mother were the same woman. If they were two different women, both were Native American. If they were the same woman, her name was Suzanne.

    We know this because of a document in which Jean Baptiste Baudreau I gives his reasons for disinheriting his son. He states that he only married his son's mother in order to legitimate him. He makes no mention of whether the same marriage also legitimated Magdeleine, probably because that wouldn't have mattered to him anyway.

    The key thing, though, is that Magdeleine's mother is probably about as removed from me as Mary is from you, yet I have multiple segments which are identified as Native American and which appear -- on the basis of sharing with other descendants of hers -- to have come from Magdeleine's mother.

    I should note, however, that because of a high level of endogamous marriages in this part of my tree, I have multiple lines leading back to Magdeleine -- as do many other of her descendants. Still, the point is that DNA segments can indeed be passed down this far.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplegateJ1 View Post
    SEGMENT.JPG
    It is Baltic and some East Asian.
    Probably easier to see at GEDmatch the kit #s are A165325 and FN90964.
    Have you contacted Dr. Doug McDonald as of yet? If anyone can specify NA or not, he can.

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