Page 1 of 21 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 208

Thread: DF27+ Z295+ CTS4065+

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,490
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain

    DF27+ Z295+ CTS4065+

    Thought you guys (esp. razyn) would find it interesting that there are six Z295+ samples in the Genome of the Netherlands data and there are six CTS4065+ samples. There are zero Z216+ and zero Z270+. They didn't produce a tree, but it's easy to infer that all Z295 samples are CTS4065 since it doesn't seem to be an SNP that is found across multiple branches.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  2. #2
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    946
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    DF27>CTS4065>FG23196
    mtDNA
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Thought you guys (esp. razyn) would find it interesting that there are six Z295+ samples in the Genome of the Netherlands data and there are six CTS4065+ samples. There are zero Z216+ and zero Z270+. They didn't produce a tree, but it's easy to infer that all Z295 samples are CTS4065 since it doesn't seem to be an SNP that is found across multiple branches.
    That is sweet. I went back and looked at your earlier post about this project. You listed 4.4% of the 500 was Z195, which is 22. So 6 of the 22 carry Z295. Z210 has been mostly regulated to Germany, the Netherlands, and Britain, while Z216/Z278 and down has been found in France, Spain, and Britain. Z295 then might be the pivot point between SW Europe and NW Europe.

  3. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,728
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA
    T2f3

    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    Z295 then might be the pivot point between SW Europe and NW Europe.
    Yes, and the way it pivots there is that CTS12074 is the branch that (mostly) went SW to Iberia -- or is now found there in abundance. CTS4065 mostly didn't -- or anyway its present day abundance is nowhere near as far SW. Both branches are Z295, so where was that line, before they branched? Transalpine Gaul? Or someplace else. One mustn't forget that these are all still subclades of DF27, so we can't necessarily move all the pieces on our game board just because it's what we see in this specific, fairly prolific lineage, formerly know as the North/South Cluster.

    I recently commented about CTS4065 on a thread that isn't under DF27, so I'll link it: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post12274

    It's my understanding that the next release of Chris Morley's experimental Geno2 haplotree will reflect some further testing in this area of R1b-DF27.
    Last edited by razyn; 08-28-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,490
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    Yes, and the way it pivots there is that CTS12074 is the branch that (mostly) went SW to Iberia -- or is now found there in abundance. CTS4065 mostly didn't -- or anyway its present day abundance is nowhere near as far SW. Both branches are Z295, so where was that line, before they branched? Transalpine Gaul? Or someplace else. One mustn't forget that these are all still subclades of DF27, so we can't necessarily move all the pieces on our game board just because it's what we see in this specific, fairly prolific lineage, formerly know as the North/South Cluster.

    I recently commented about CTS4065 on a thread that isn't under DF27, so I'll link it: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post12274

    It's my understanding that the next release of Chris Morley's experimental Geno2 haplotree will reflect some further testing in this area of R1b-DF27.
    No reason why it can't already be included in the ISOGG tree, correct?
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  5. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,728
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA
    T2f3

    I don't know of any reason. But then I don't know any reason why L484 can't be. Not everyone has the same set of reasons. Vince T. and David R. have not always agreed with each other, let alone with me. There are issues about the stability or instability, real or feared, of both CTS4065 and L484. In some cases, these fears can only be assuaged by Sanger testing, and there isn't such a test for CTS4065 (or Z295, or several others higher up the same branch).

    However I continue to believe that David, specifically, is actually rational; and to suspect that someday the ISOGG tree will show us unstably hanging there, like last year's leaves on a beech tree.

  6. #6
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    946
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    DF27>CTS4065>FG23196
    mtDNA
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post

    However I continue to believe that David, specifically, is actually rational; and to suspect that someday the ISOGG tree will show us unstably hanging there, like last year's leaves on a beech tree.
    You know, I love a good metaphor.

  7. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,728
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA
    T2f3

    CTS4065 was added to ISOGG Investigation today. http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

    CTS12074, Z295, and Z210 have been under investigation since 19 March, maybe this will help with that line, since it splits the phylogeny below Z295.

    So there comes our branch of the aforementioned beech tree, anyway.

  8. #8
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    946
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    DF27>CTS4065>FG23196
    mtDNA
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    CTS4065 was added to ISOGG Investigation today. http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

    CTS12074, Z295, and Z210 have been under investigation since 19 March, maybe this will help with that line, since it splits the phylogeny below Z295.

    So there comes our branch of the aforementioned beech tree, anyway.
    I guess you heard Thomas Krahn has parted ways with FTDNA. I wonder how this will effect snp research there.

  9. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,728
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Y-DNA
    DF27, FGC15733
    mtDNA
    T2f3

    I've been reading the speculation and gossip about that on two other forums or groups, on RootsWeb and Facebook, but don't think it's very productive to get into it on this thread. If anywhere. We'll have to wait and see how all that shakes out. Certainly it isn't helpful to citizen scientists for some of the primary data streams to be shut down.

  10. #10
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    946
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    DF27>CTS4065>FG23196
    mtDNA
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    I've been reading the speculation and gossip about that on two other forums or groups, on RootsWeb and Facebook, but don't think it's very productive to get into it on this thread. If anywhere. We'll have to wait and see how all that shakes out. Certainly it isn't helpful to citizen scientists for some of the primary data streams to be shut down.
    I asked Richard Rocca about Thomas Krahn's comment about designing chips for Z210 and some of the other snps around that marker. He said that it is difficult to isolate those snps and Thomas Krahn had to design them from scratch.

Page 1 of 21 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •