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Thread: Morley predictor from Ancestry DNA R1B-U106 /Z8(s515) / Z346(s512) + possible K-M9?

  1. #1

    Morley predictor from Ancestry DNA R1B-U106 /Z8(s515) / Z346(s512) + possible K-M9?

    I'm a little new at this. I plugged my father's DNA into Morley's Y-DNA Haplogroup predictor, and it came back with most likely subclade predictor as R1B-Z346/S512. Underneath that, second choice was R1B-Z8/S515. I figured with the strong predictor followed up with Promethease that he's definitely in the R1B group, most likely M405/U106. However, I don't know what to make of these subclades because when I click on the second choice of Z8, it shows two negatives under that expanded screen, so I don't know if the first choice of Z346 is valid or a false positive. Also, the predictor came back with a K-M9 and I read that this is a very ancient haplogroup not commonly found. Is this a false positive as well (due to the likelihood that group I1-L64 that is very apparently negative)?

    I know this is just a basic estimator but I'd like to know what the next step I should take. I've been stuck on my maiden name (dad's surname) ancestry for years and cannot document before 1820 in Lancaster, PA and have found several different variant spellings of the name. From some research and feedback, we presume it's German, but so unusual that I don't know if spending the money for a Y-DNA test will open up any answers for me.

    Any assistance is appreciated. I have copied dad's Morley predictor results below for the Z346, Z8, and K-M9. Colors of red noted where uptakes results are and remainder is green or not tested. *** Highlighted prediction per Morley. Posted breakdowns are from the ISOGG tree. (The experimental tree gives me the following predictions):

    (most likely) R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2b
    R1b-Z346

    R1b1a2a1a1
    R1b-M405

    R1b1a2a
    R1b-L150 (R1b-L23, R1b-L49)

    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a
    R1b-Z24 (R1b-Z20, R1b-Z23)

    R1b1a2a1a2b1a1~3
    R1b-CTS358 (R1b-CTS7275, R1b-CTS8127)

    Z346

    Root (Y-Adam) ROOT (Y-ADAM)
    A0-T AF3, L1085, L1089, L1090, L1093, L1095, L1098, L1099, L1101, L1105, L1116, L1118, L1120, L1121, L1123, L1124, L1125, L1127, L1128, L1129, L1130, L1132, L1135, L1136, L1137, L1142, L1143, L1145, L1150, L1155, L1235
    A1 L985, L986, L989, L1002, L1003, L1004, L1005, L1009, L1013, L1053, L1084, L1112, L1153, P305, V161R, V168, V171, V174, V238, V241, V250
    A1b P108, V221
    BT L413/PF1409/V31, L418, L438, L440, L604/PF1243, L957, L962, L969, L970/PF1065, L971, L977, L1060/PF1021, L1061/PF1101, L1062/PF302, M42, M91, M94/PF1081, M139, M299, P97, PK1, PAGE65/SRY1532/SRY10831R, PF1407/V29, PF1411/V59, PF1412/V64, PF1406/V102, V187, PF1403, V202, PF1410/V235
    CT M168/PF1416, M294, P9R
    CF P143
    F L132R, M89/PF2746, M213/P137/PAGE38, M235/PAGE80/PF2665, PF2704/P14, P133, P134, PF2741/P135, PF2762/P136, PF2655/P138, P139, P140, PF2602/P141, P142, PF2617/P145, PF2623/P146, PF2734/P148, P149, PF2625/P151, P157, PF2706/P158, PF2717/P159, PF2618/P160, P161, P163, PF2702/P166, PF2632/P187, P316
    IJK M523/L15/PF3492/S137, M522/L16/PF3493/S138, L69/S163
    K M9, PF5504/P128, PF5493/P131, PF5480/P132
    K(xLT) M526/PF5979
    P 92R7R, L138, L268, L405, L471/PF5989, L536/PF5860, L721/PF6020, L741, L768/PF5976/YSC0000274, L779/PF5907/YSC0000251, L781/PF5875/YSC0000255, M45/PF5962, M74/N12, P207/P27, P69, PF5879/P226, PF5927/P228, PF5925/P230, PF5946/P235, PF5873/P237, P239, PF5897/P240, PF5874/P243, P244, PF5941/P281, PF5932/P282, PF5966/P283, P284, PF5866/P295/S8, PAGE83, V231
    R M207/PAGE37/PF6038/UTY2, P224, P227, PF6019/P229, P232, PF6068/P280, PF6059/P285, S4, S9
    R1 M173/P241/PAGE29, M306/S1, PF6128/P225, P231, PF6142/P233, P234, PF6137/P236, PF6115/P328, PF6113/P242, PF6117/P245, PF6136/P286, P294
    R1b M343/PF6242
    R1b1 L278, M415/PF6251, P25R
    R1b1a PF6398/P297, L320
    R1b1a2 L265/PF6431, M269, M520, PF6485/S3, PF6399/S10, S13, S17
    R1b1a2a L23/PF6534/S141, L49/S349R, L150/PF6274R
    R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167
    R1b1a2a1a L11/PF6539/S127, L52/PF6541, L151/PF6542, PF6546/P310/S129, P311/S128
    R1b1a2a1a1 M405/S21/U106
    R1b1a2a1a1c Z381/S263
    R1b1a2a1a1c2 Z301
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b L48/S162
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2 Z9/S268, Z10
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a Z2
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1 Z7/S272
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a Z5, Z8/S515
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2 Z1
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2a Z6/S276
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2b Z346/S512 ***
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2b1 Z343/S387

    Z8

    Root (Y-Adam) ROOT (Y-ADAM)
    A0-T AF3, L1085, L1089, L1090, L1093, L1095, L1098, L1099, L1101, L1105, L1116, L1118, L1120, L1121, L1123, L1124, L1125, L1127, L1128, L1129, L1130, L1132, L1135, L1136, L1137, L1142, L1143, L1145, L1150, L1155, L1235
    A1 L985, L986, L989, L1002, L1003, L1004, L1005, L1009, L1013, L1053, L1084, L1112, L1153, P305, V161R, V168, V171, V174, V238, V241, V250
    A1b P108, V221
    BT L413/PF1409/V31, L418, L438, L440, L604/PF1243, L957, L962, L969, L970/PF1065, L971, L977, L1060/PF1021, L1061/PF1101, L1062/PF302, M42, M91, M94/PF1081, M139, M299, P97, PK1, PAGE65/SRY1532/SRY10831R, PF1407/V29, PF1411/V59, PF1412/V64, PF1406/V102, V187, PF1403, V202, PF1410/V235
    CT M168/PF1416, M294, P9R
    CF P143
    F L132R, M89/PF2746, M213/P137/PAGE38, M235/PAGE80/PF2665, PF2704/P14, P133, P134, PF2741/P135, PF2762/P136, PF2655/P138, P139, P140, PF2602/P141, P142, PF2617/P145, PF2623/P146, PF2734/P148, P149, PF2625/P151, P157, PF2706/P158, PF2717/P159, PF2618/P160, P161, P163, PF2702/P166, PF2632/P187, P316
    IJK M523/L15/PF3492/S137, M522/L16/PF3493/S138, L69/S163
    K M9, PF5504/P128, PF5493/P131, PF5480/P132
    K(xLT) M526/PF5979
    P 92R7R, L138, L268, L405, L471/PF5989, L536/PF5860, L721/PF6020, L741, L768/PF5976/YSC0000274, L779/PF5907/YSC0000251, L781/PF5875/YSC0000255, M45/PF5962, M74/N12, P207/P27, P69, PF5879/P226, PF5927/P228, PF5925/P230, PF5946/P235, PF5873/P237, P239, PF5897/P240, PF5874/P243, P244, PF5941/P281, PF5932/P282, PF5966/P283, P284, PF5866/P295/S8, PAGE83, V231
    R M207/PAGE37/PF6038/UTY2, P224, P227, PF6019/P229, P232, PF6068/P280, PF6059/P285, S4, S9
    R1 M173/P241/PAGE29, M306/S1, PF6128/P225, P231, PF6142/P233, P234, PF6137/P236, PF6115/P328, PF6113/P242, PF6117/P245, PF6136/P286, P294
    R1b M343/PF6242
    R1b1 L278, M415/PF6251, P25R
    R1b1a PF6398/P297, L320
    R1b1a2 L265/PF6431, M269, M520, PF6485/S3, PF6399/S10, S13, S17
    R1b1a2a L23/PF6534/S141, L49/S349R, L150/PF6274R
    R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167
    R1b1a2a1a L11/PF6539/S127, L52/PF6541, L151/PF6542, PF6546/P310/S129, P311/S128
    R1b1a2a1a1 M405/S21/U106
    R1b1a2a1a1c Z381/S263
    R1b1a2a1a1c2 Z301
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b L48/S162
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2 Z9/S268, Z10
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a Z2
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1 Z7/S272
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a Z5, Z8/S515 ***
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a1 Z11/S274
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a1a Z12/S385
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2 Z1
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2a Z6/S276
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2b Z346/S512
    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a3 M365R

    GROUP K

    Root (Y-Adam) ROOT (Y-ADAM)
    A0-T AF3, L1085, L1089, L1090, L1093, L1095, L1098, L1099, L1101, L1105, L1116, L1118, L1120, L1121, L1123, L1124, L1125, L1127, L1128, L1129, L1130, L1132, L1135, L1136, L1137, L1142, L1143, L1145, L1150, L1155, L1235
    A1 L985, L986, L989, L1002, L1003, L1004, L1005, L1009, L1013, L1053, L1084, L1112, L1153, P305, V161R, V168, V171, V174, V238, V241, V250
    A1b P108, V221
    BT L413/PF1409/V31, L418, L438, L440, L604/PF1243, L957, L962, L969, L970/PF1065, L971, L977, L1060/PF1021, L1061/PF1101, L1062/PF302, M42, M91, M94/PF1081, M139, M299, P97, PK1, PAGE65/SRY1532/SRY10831R, PF1407/V29, PF1411/V59, PF1412/V64, PF1406/V102, V187, PF1403, V202, PF1410/V235
    CT M168/PF1416, M294, P9R
    CF P143
    F L132R, M89/PF2746, M213/P137/PAGE38, M235/PAGE80/PF2665, PF2704/P14, P133, P134, PF2741/P135, PF2762/P136, PF2655/P138, P139, P140, PF2602/P141, P142, PF2617/P145, PF2623/P146, PF2734/P148, P149, PF2625/P151, P157, PF2706/P158, PF2717/P159, PF2618/P160, P161, P163, PF2702/P166, PF2632/P187, P316
    IJK M523/L15/PF3492/S137, M522/L16/PF3493/S138, L69/S163
    IJ M429/P125, PF3554/P123, PF3553/P124, PF3558/P126, PF3526/P127, P129, PF3525/P130/S22, S2
    I L41/PF3787, M170/PF3715, M258/PF3721, P19R, P38, P212, U179
    I1 L64, L75, L80, L81, L118, L121/S62, L123, L124/S64, L125/S65, L157R, L186, L187, L840, M253, M307/P203R, M450/S109, P30, P40, S63, S66, S107, S108, S110, S111
    I2 L68/S329, PF3781, M438/P215/PF3853/S31
    J 12F2R, L134/PF4539, M304/PAGE16/PF4609, PF4584/P209, L60/S6, S34, S35
    J1 L255, L321/PF4646, M267/PF4782
    J2 M172/PAGE28/PF4908, L228/PF4895/S321
    K M9, PF5504/P128, PF5493/P131, PF5480/P132 ***
    LT L298/P326, L811
    L L855, L863, L878, L879, M11, M20/PF5570, M61/PAGE43, M185/PF5755
    T L206, L445, L452, L455/PF5670, L810, M184/PAGE34/USP9Y+3178, M193, M272/PF5667, PAGE129, PR4091
    K(xLT) M526/PF5979
    K1 P60, P304, P308
    K2 P79, P299, P307
    K3 P261, P263
    M P256, PAGE93/S322
    NO M214/PAGE39, P188, P192, P193, P194, P195
    P 92R7R, L138, L268, L405, L471/PF5989, L536/PF5860, L721/PF6020, L741, L768/PF5976/YSC0000274, L779/PF5907/YSC0000251, L781/PF5875/YSC0000255, M45/PF5962, M74/N12, P207/P27, P69, PF5879/P226, PF5927/P228, PF5925/P230, PF5946/P235, PF5873/P237, P239, PF5897/P240, PF5874/P243, P244, PF5941/P281, PF5932/P282, PF5966/P283, P284, PF5866/P295/S8, PAGE83, V231
    S M230, P202, P204
    Last edited by jselwa; 11-27-2017 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    798
    Sex
    Location
    Waterville, ME
    Ethnicity
    Great Migration Colonists
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2g (FMS)
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1a-P109 (23andMe)
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b3 (23andMe)

    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    First of all, what test was you using (23andMe, Genographic Project, FTDNA, or what)? Each company has their own strengths/weaknesses.

    The R-U106 Haplogroup team has posted a Google Document showing the U106 tree at:
    Published read-only link (Google account not required): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...IQZXLU/pubhtml
    Shared read-only link (Google account not required, allows downloads): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


    I help maintain this tree along with the other members of the admin team. I note some of the formatting appears wonky, but I am unsure why it is so. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability.

    If your father had any Y-STR testing, the Z8 STR haplotype is fairly distinctive at 37 STRs and beyond. Ideally, we would like to see at least 67 STRs, as one of the STRs in the 38-67 panel (DYS392) is a fairly reliable indicator of U106+ (392=13) or U106- (392=12).

    The U106 group does have a discussion forum. It is currently hosted by Yahoo Groups, but recently there have been some major issues with Yahoo Groups in general, which is of real concern. I can proide you with more information if you are interested.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    First of all, what test was you using (23andMe, Genographic Project, FTDNA, or what)? Each company has their own strengths/weaknesses.
    I used Ancestry Autosomal DNA with the Morley Y-DNA Haplogroup predictor. Google for link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    I help maintain this tree along with the other members of the admin team. I note some of the formatting appears wonky, but I am unsure why it is so. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability.

    If your father had any Y-STR testing, the Z8 STR haplotype is fairly distinctive at 37 STRs and beyond. Ideally, we would like to see at least 67 STRs, as one of the STRs in the 38-67 panel (DYS392) is a fairly reliable indicator of U106+ (392=13) or U106- (392=12).

    The U106 group does have a discussion forum. It is currently hosted by Yahoo Groups, but recently there have been some major issues with Yahoo Groups in general, which is of real concern. I can proide you with more information if you are interested.
    Thank you, I will be sure to check these resources out!

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Posts
    1
    Sex

    I think I may be a little newer to this than you! Like yourself I am looking for confirmation of a fathers surname/paternal line.
    I have just visited Morley Dna and have the exact predictions as yours above.
    Is this normal....totally new to this!
    (most likely) R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a2b
    R1b-Z346

    R1b1a2a1a1
    R1b-M405

    R1b1a2a
    R1b-L150 (R1b-L23, R1b-L49)

    R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a
    R1b-Z24 (R1b-Z20, R1b-Z23)

    R1b1a2a1a2b1a1~3
    R1b-CTS358 (R1b-CTS7275, R1b-CTS8127)

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