Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: E-CTS1273 under V13 - the haplogroup of biblical Abraham?

  1. #1

    E-CTS1273 under V13 - the haplogroup of biblical Abraham?

    I suppose that E-V13 (more precisely its subclade E-CTS1273) may be the haplogroup of biblical Abraham!

    TMRCA of CTS1273 according to YFull is estimated as 4000 years, which fits to the story of Abraham. It expands rapidly about 4000 ybp! One of specimens of CTS1273* was found in Jordan (id:YF10527). CTS1273>S7461>Y19357* (TMRCA 3700 ybp) was found in Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.

    CTS1273, according to the data from YFull haplotree, fits to Israelites better than any subclade of J1 or J2.

    E-V13 is present in Near East and most of Europe. It is scattered. Does CTS1273 represents scattered Israelites?

    I do not believe that CTS1273 was formed about 4700 ybp (I believe in young Earth creationism). History of CTS1273 may be a proof of biblical report about Abraham.
    Last edited by yecer; 12-03-2017 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    205
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    mtDNA (M)
    T2

    Bulgaria
    I suppose you are looking at the Yfull tree only. Most of those CTS1273*(this is more popular as CTS5856*) there in fact belong to different subbranches. You should also look at the FTDNA tree and best at the V13 NGS project here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2080530255

    The whole CTS1273/CTS5856 super branch, however, comprises most of the V13 individuals around the world, it spread around the Bronze age and could not be connected to any present ethnicity.

  3. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    25
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-CTS1273
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States of America
    The discussion of CTS1273 brought me to this website. This forum was one of the only references to this subclade on the entire internet. I am a subclade of this haplogroup, and I have BigY testing as well as YFull analysis done to my sample. I've always thought that it was interesting that a third of all Jewish lines carry African lineages. It's vastly different from the R and J haplos normally associated with Jewish descent.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Tribal For This Useful Post:

     Danzo (09-24-2018)

  5. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    784
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-ZS241
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a1l
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-CTS1273*

    Albania Kosovo Montenegro
    E-V13>CTS5856 imo has nothing to do with the Levant or surrounding regions. Haplogroups more connected to that region are certain J1 clades, E-M123 clades and others such as J2 clades. CTS5856 was certainly a clade that arose in Europe
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  6. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    967
    Sex
    Location
    Earth
    Ethnicity
    Italian Slavic Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V12* Natufian
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a Levantine

    Italy Poland Germany Palatinate Israel
    E-V13 or any clade of E-V13 is NOT African or Levantine in origin. These are Balkan. E-M123, E-M81, E-V12*, and E-V22 are NE African, Egyptian and have been found in Natufian samples.
    DNA Tribes

    Balto - North Slavic 22.4%
    Northwest European 18.8%
    Italian Greek 18.1%
    Persian Jewish 9%
    Iberian 6.3%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 5.9%
    Basque 4.3%
    Sephardic Jewish 4.1%
    Balochi Punjab 3.7%
    Caucasus 2.5%
    Urals 1.3%
    Finnish 1.2%
    Lebanese Cypriot 1%
    Other 1.4%

    Sephardic Jewish Turkey 18.8%
    Argyll and Bute Scottish Highlands 18.6%
    Sardinia 18.4%
    Lithuania 15.7%
    Russia Voronezh 7%
    Belgium 5.6%
    Syrian Jewish 4.9%
    Libyan Jewish 4.4%
    Russia Tver 2.4%
    Azerbaijani Jewish 2.2%

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tz85 For This Useful Post:

     Kelmendasi (11-06-2018),  Lupriac (11-22-2018)

  8. #6
    Banned
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Archaic African
    Nationality
    East African
    Y-DNA (P)
    E M96 ( Basal )

    African Union
    Bildschirmfoto 2018-09-21 um 21.37.32.pngBildschirmfoto 2018-09-21 um 21.37.32.png


    The ancestral spirit is the DNA that lives in Man it is the spirit of your father and your fathers fathers all the back to the first Man Adam the African it is the link between MAN and The creator . The common Ancestors of All E sub-sacale is E who is the father of Many nations primarily within the African Continent and secondary in the Areas surrounding the African continent . (The father of Civilization)
    Last edited by MTU; 09-30-2018 at 10:44 PM.

  9. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    25
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-CTS1273
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    E-V13 or any clade of E-V13 is NOT African or Levantine in origin.
    Do you have any science to prove this, other than your opinion?
    I have scientific data from national geographic genographic project that states otherwise. I even know which tribes that I am associated with, at over a 90% rate of all of the males in that tribe. So, tell me how I can match the male line of 90 percent of all Bantu, Dogon, and Yoruba men.... but it not be an African haplogroup. That is such a novel assertion on your part.

  10. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    967
    Sex
    Location
    Earth
    Ethnicity
    Italian Slavic Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V12* Natufian
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a Levantine

    Italy Poland Germany Palatinate Israel
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribal View Post
    Do you have any science to prove this, other than your opinion?
    I have scientific data from national geographic genographic project that states otherwise. I even know which tribes that I am associated with, at over a 90% rate of all of the males in that tribe. So, tell me how I can match the male line of 90 percent of all Bantu, Dogon, and Yoruba men.... but it not be an African haplogroup. That is such a novel assertion on your part.
    My opinion? I'm stating facts. Their have been MANY scientific studies, that have concluded that E-V13 is BALKAN. Do your research
    DNA Tribes

    Balto - North Slavic 22.4%
    Northwest European 18.8%
    Italian Greek 18.1%
    Persian Jewish 9%
    Iberian 6.3%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 5.9%
    Basque 4.3%
    Sephardic Jewish 4.1%
    Balochi Punjab 3.7%
    Caucasus 2.5%
    Urals 1.3%
    Finnish 1.2%
    Lebanese Cypriot 1%
    Other 1.4%

    Sephardic Jewish Turkey 18.8%
    Argyll and Bute Scottish Highlands 18.6%
    Sardinia 18.4%
    Lithuania 15.7%
    Russia Voronezh 7%
    Belgium 5.6%
    Syrian Jewish 4.9%
    Libyan Jewish 4.4%
    Russia Tver 2.4%
    Azerbaijani Jewish 2.2%

  11. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    967
    Sex
    Location
    Earth
    Ethnicity
    Italian Slavic Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V12* Natufian
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a Levantine

    Italy Poland Germany Palatinate Israel
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribal View Post
    Do you have any science to prove this, other than your opinion?
    I have scientific data from national geographic genographic project that states otherwise. I even know which tribes that I am associated with, at over a 90% rate of all of the males in that tribe. So, tell me how I can match the male line of 90 percent of all Bantu, Dogon, and Yoruba men.... but it not be an African haplogroup. That is such a novel assertion on your part.

    Yes, your Haplogroup is European.

    According to Lacan et al. (2011), Neolithic skeletons (~7,000 years old) that were excavated from the Avellaner cave in Catalonia, northeastern Spain included a male specimen, which carried haplogroup E1b1b. This fossil belonged to the E1b1b1a1b (V13) subclade, and possessed identical haplotypes as found in modern European individuals (five Albanians, two Provence French, two Corsicans, two Bosnians, one Italian, one Sicilian, and one Greek). The presence of this haplogroup in Neolithic Spain suggests that it is associated with the Neolithic agricultural package.



    Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).

     Cruciani et al. (2007)

    Battaglia et al. (2008) suggest that the E-V13 subclade of E-M78 originated in situ in Europe, and propose that the first major dispersal of E-V13 from the Balkans may have been in the direction of the Adriatic Sea with the Neolithic Impressed Ware culture often referred to as Impressa or Cardial. The above-mentioned find of archaic E-V13 in Spain supports this suggestion.
    Last edited by Tz85; 03-05-2020 at 10:57 PM.
    DNA Tribes

    Balto - North Slavic 22.4%
    Northwest European 18.8%
    Italian Greek 18.1%
    Persian Jewish 9%
    Iberian 6.3%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 5.9%
    Basque 4.3%
    Sephardic Jewish 4.1%
    Balochi Punjab 3.7%
    Caucasus 2.5%
    Urals 1.3%
    Finnish 1.2%
    Lebanese Cypriot 1%
    Other 1.4%

    Sephardic Jewish Turkey 18.8%
    Argyll and Bute Scottish Highlands 18.6%
    Sardinia 18.4%
    Lithuania 15.7%
    Russia Voronezh 7%
    Belgium 5.6%
    Syrian Jewish 4.9%
    Libyan Jewish 4.4%
    Russia Tver 2.4%
    Azerbaijani Jewish 2.2%

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tz85 For This Useful Post:

     Johane Derite (03-06-2020),  Kelmendasi (03-15-2020),  palamede (03-11-2020)

  13. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    25
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-CTS1273
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    Yes, your Haplogroup is European.
    You should do some research on what the YAP+ mutation shows us. This shows us that it is African in origin.
    You're hinging what we know based on a suggestion? You should really learn what Y chromosome Alu polymorphism is.

    "Considering both the Y-chromosomal phylogenetic structure incorporating the D0 lineage, and published evidence for modern humans outside Africa, the most favored model involves an origin of the DE lineage within Africa with D0 and E remaining there, and migration out of the three lineages (C, D, and FT) that now form the vast majority of non-African Y chromosomes. The exit took place 50,300-81,000 years ago (latest date for FT lineage expansion outside Africa - earliest date for the D/D0 lineage split inside Africa), and most likely 50,300-59,400 years ago (considering Neanderthal admixture). This work resolves a long-running debate about Y-chromosomal out-of-Africa/back-to-Africa migrations, and provides insights into the out-of-Africa expansion more generally." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31196864/

    "Haplogroup E, defined by mutation M40, is the most common human Y chromosome clade within Africa." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26108492/

    "To test the hypotheses of modern human origin in East Asia, we sampled 12,127 male individuals from 163 populations and typed for three Y chromosome biallelic markers (YAP, M89, and M130). All the individuals carried a mutation at one of the three sites. These three mutations (YAP+, M89T, and M130T) coalesce to another mutation (M168T), which originated in Africa about 35,000 to 89,000 years ago. " https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11349147/


    Funny that you cite 2008, lol...... because even wikipedia shows how incorrect that you are.
    "A 2019 study by Haber et al. supports an African origin for haplogroup E (based on an analysis of the Y-chromosomal phylogenetic structure, haplogroup divergence times, and the recently discovered haplogroup D0 found in three Nigerians, an additional branch of the DE lineage diverging early from the D branch). The authors support an African origin for DE (parent haplogroup of E) with E and D0 also originating in Africa, along with the migration out of Africa of the three lineages (C, D and FT) that now form the vast majority of non-African Y chromosomes. The early divergence dates found in the study for DE, E, and D0 (all dated from about 71-76 kya), which are determined to predate the migration out-of-Africa of the ancestors of Eurasians (dated to ca. 50-60 kya), are also considered by the authors to support an African origin for those haplogroups." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M96

    Nice troll attempt kid.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What is the haplogroup of biblical Abraham?
    By haplog in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-04-2018, 02:55 PM
  2. What was Abraham's haplogroup?
    By lifeisdandy in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 11-17-2016, 05:50 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •