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Thread: The History of J2

  1. #61
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    We then have our Tepe Hissar C period sample I2337 dating to roughly 5530 ybp, represented by the J2a-F3133>F3369>Z40298 branch which has a TMRCA of 6000 ybp being roughly close to the date.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40298/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepe_Hissar

    The Tepe Hissar C period is marked by a proto-urban phase and significant wealth, it appears there might be some connections with the developing BMAC culture.

    There is an additional Tepe Hissar C sample which dates much young, sample I2927 which dates to roughly 4400 ybp, and the sample belongs to J2a-F3133.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F3133/
    Last edited by Principe; 10-15-2019 at 07:10 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    So Big Updates on J2's history based on Ancient samples.

    Before I commence I would like to thank Pribislav and Trojet for all their hard work, its a team effort and it makes the most accurate calls.

    Alright so we have a Mesolithic J2a sample from Iran, sample is I2312 and the sample was found in the Belt Cave near Behshahr in the Albroz Mountains, the sample dates to roughly 11 950 ybp or you can round off to 12 000 ybp, the branch is J2a2-PF5008 which in itself dates to 16 000 ybp, perhaps the PF5008 was born around the area.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF5008/
    Isn't this the sample from the "World's First Farmers" paper by Lazaridis?
    MDKA: Robert Boulay, b. 1631, Réveillon, Orne, France
    Y-DNA: R1b-U152 > L2 > Z367 > Z34 > Z33 > BY164497> BY3604

  4. #63
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    We have samples from the Jiroft Culture which is extremely fascinating they are represented by the Shahr-i Sokhta site, the Jiroft Culture was the Bronze Age Culture of Eastern Iran and Afghanistan. A fascinating Culture which should be read up on.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiroft_culture

    In any case we have Jiroft proper and Jiroft Indus Periphery samples, for a total of 8 samples of which 2 are of lower quality and remains at the J2 and J2a-L26 level, 1 belongs to J2b and the remaining 5 belong to J2a.

    1. I8726, which dates to 5000 ybp and belongs to J2a>F3133>Y15604 (Indus Periphery Sample) https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y15604/

    2. I8725, which dates to 4900 ybp and belongs to J2a-YSC253* https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YSC0000253/

    3. I8724, which dates to 4900 ybp and belongs to J2a-L26 (low quality sample)

    4. I11480, which dates to 4800 ybp and belongs to J2b-Z2432>Y22893 (Indus Periphery Sample) https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y33893/

    5. I11460, which dates to 4600 ybp and belongs to J2 (low quality sample)

    6. I11474, which dates to 4600 ybp and belongs to J2a2-P279>Y25795 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y25795/

    7. I11478, which dates to 4500 ybp and belongs to J2a-F3133>Y15604>PreY15598 https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y15598/

    8. I8728, which dates to 4500 ybp and belongs to J2a-PF5172>Z6082 (Indus Periphery Sample) https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z6082/
    Last edited by Principe; 10-15-2019 at 05:36 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Isn't this the sample from the "World's First Farmers" paper by Lazaridis?
    It is but I have updated by putting more information.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

  7. #65
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    Now to BMAC, which cannot be stressed how significant this culture was and its role in the Bronze Age Silk road, the BMAC samples come from the sites of Bustan, Gonur Tepe and Sappali Tepe. The total number of samples in 11. BMAC has been mentioned here before, if readers want to go back and check it out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactri...ogical_Complex

    1. I11028, which dates to 5100 ybp, from Bustan, and belongs to J2a-F3133>Y15604>PreY17404 https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y17404/

    2. I1792, which dates to 4300 ybp, from Gonur, and belongs to J2a-L24>Y22662 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22662/

    3. I10411, which dates to 4200 ybp, from Gonur, and belongs to J2a2-PF4993>PreP279 https://yfull.com/tree/J-P279/

    4. I2128, which dates to 4100 ybp, from Gonur, and belongs to J2a-F3133 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F3133/ (Probably a lower quality sample)

    5. I7494, which dates to 3900 ybp, from Sappali, and belongs to J2a-F3133>Z7706>L192 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L192/

    6. I7421, which dates to 3800 ybp, from Sappali, and belongs to J2a2-PF5008* https://yfull.com/tree/J-PF5008/

    7. I11027, which dates to 3500 ybp, from Bustan, and belongs to J2a-Z7671>CTS900>Z7661* https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z7661/

    8. I4899, which dates to 3400 ybp, from Bustan, and belongs to J2a-M410 (low quality sample)

    9. I4157, which dates to 3400 ybp, from Bustan, and belongs to J2b-Z2432 (low quality) https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2432/

    10. I4159, which dates to 3400 ybp, from Bustan, and belongs to J2a-PF5172>PF5177>PF5252 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF5252/

    11. I4794, which dates to 3400 ybp, from Aktobe, Kazashkstan, sample is part of Steppe BMAC, and belongs to J2a-F3133 (low quality sample) https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F3133/

    We also have a sample from Aigyrzhal, Kyrgyzstan which has the same Y line as the oldest sample from Bustan dating to the Chalcolithic so pre BMAC.

    12. I11527, which dates to 4000 ybp, from Aigyrzhal, and belongs to J2a-F3133>Y15604>PreY17404 https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y17404/
    Last edited by Principe; 10-15-2019 at 06:30 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  9. #66
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    Now to Geoksyur Tepe which is a Chalcolithic site located in Turkmenistan, the reason for its significance is that it is connected to Namazaga Culture which is also pre BMAC Culture. There is one J2a sample from this Culture, the sample is I12482 and belongs to J2a2-PF4993.

    https://yfull.com/tree/J-PF4993/

    The other older sample reported in a previous paper of the Namzaga Culture belongs to J2a-YSC253, the significance of these finds are huge, because we see YSC253 and P279 (branch of PF4993) appear in the Jiroft Culture, coupled with the Y15604 branch found in Chalcolithic Bustan which also links the later BMAC Culture and Jiroft together. Also appears to have links with the Indus Periphery samples as well. What seems to be happening is that a culture predating BMAC, Jiroft and maybe IVC brought in these lineages and the common denominator would be the Jeitun culture and the Anau Culture, the Anau Culture would also link Tepe Hissar into the mix and as it belongs to a J2a-F3133 branch this makes total sense.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anau,_Turkmenistan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeitun

    With this scenario we have a Neolithic and Chalcolithic wave of J2 branches moving Eastwards, now which branches might be associated with a Neolithic Wave or Chalcolithic wave might be hard to pick apart and all ultimately coming from the Iranian plateau. At least 5 J2 branches were involved in forming at least BMAC and Jiroft, along with potentially IVC hopefully we get more samples. There might also be a distant connection with Elam that should be considered as well, with undiscovered ancient branches of PF5160 representing the Elamites.

    They include 4 branches of J2a and 1 of J2b

    1. https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-F3133/

    2. https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YSC0000253/

    3. https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF5174/

    4. https://yfull.com/tree/J-PF4993/

    5. https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z2432/
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  11. #67
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    Now last from the Central and South Asian paper we have our Swat Valley samples which date to the Iron Age through Medieval and in total represents 9 samples. Coming from multiple sites such as Butkara, Udegram, Loebanr, Katelai, and Parwak.

    1. I12465, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Katelai, and belongs to J2a-F3133>Z7706 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z7706/

    2. I12453, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Katelai, and belongs to J2a-L26 (low quality sample)

    3. I12463, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Katelai, and belongs to J2a-PF5174>Z7308>CTS667 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS667/

    4. I5396, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Katelai, and belongs to J2a-PF5174>PreZ7308 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z7308/

    5. I12458, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Loebanr, and belongs to J2b-Z2432>Y950 https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y950/

    6. I12982, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Loebanr, and belongs to J2b-Z2432>Y950>Y2155 https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y2155/

    7. I12451, which dates to 2800 ybp, from Butkara, and belongs to J2a-L25 (low quality sample)

    8. I1808, which dates to 1100 ybp, from Parwak, and belongs to J2b-M102 (low quality sample)

    9. I7716, which dates to 700 ybp, from Udegram, and belongs to J2a-F3133>FGC9942>Y14698 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y14698/
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  13. #68
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    Big update!! I re-looked at the Visigothic Sample from Spain, and it turns out he belongs to J2a-L70>Z2177*

    So sample I12162, Visigoth Spain is J2a-Z2177, https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2177/

    I will relook at the other two samples

    I3983 remains at J2a-Z1847 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1847/
    Last edited by Principe; 10-19-2019 at 03:43 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  15. #69
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    I belong to J-L70. My paternal line is Ashkenazi Jewish (Judean/Levantine). I have noticed that my subclade is found all the way from Saudi Arabia to the British Isles.

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  17. #70
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    Now there will be some updates with the J2 samples from the Antonio et al. Roman paper

    To start we have 2 Neolithic J2a samples from Ripabianca di Monterado, Marche dating to 5300-5200 BC or 7300-7200 ybp.

    The samples are

    R17, which belongs to J2a2-PreY29673 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y29673/

    R19, which belongs to J2a-S11842* https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-S11842/

    Both these samples came as shocks really, as J2a2 clades up until now have been exclusively found in ancient Iranian and Central Asian samples and all S11842 samples to date have been found in Middle Bronze Age Anatolian samples so it was unexpected. The Neolithic samples from Ripabianca di Monterado do contain Iran Neo like admixture which would suggest they came from a different source Neolithic Farmer population and perhaps may be linked to the J2a-Z6057 samples that keep appearing in later Neolithic Balkan groups. This can maybe lead to future surprising finds in terms of some lineages, but until then this is what is known.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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