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Thread: The History of J2

  1. #91
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    Here's a little update folks based on some recent posts on this forum. I will also link this great online resource for ancient J2 samples: https://j2-m172.info/links/scientific-papers/. Well here's the slightly altered list:

    1. R19 Y-DNA: J2a-S11842*, originally reported as J2a-L26, mtDNA: U5b3a1. Neolithic, Ripabianca di Monterado, Marche, Italy, 5345-5221 BCE. Sources: Antonio et al. 2019, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Axo/edit#gid=0. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post628211

    2. R17 Y-DNA: J2a-PreY29673, originally reported as J-M304, mtDNA: U8b1b, Neolithic, Ripabianca di Monterado, Marche, Italy, 5324-5223 BCE. Sources: Antonio et al. 2019, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Axo/edit#gid=0. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post628211

    3. I5068 Y-DNA: J2a-Z6048(xS15572), originally reported as J2, mtDNA: T2b23, LBK Austria, 5500-4775 BCE. Source: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post354282

    4. I5207 Y-DNA: J2a-Z6048(xFGC61600,S15572), originally reported as J2a, mtDNA: H67, LBK Austria, 5500-4500 BCE. Source: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....318#post354318

    5. I5078 Y-DNA: J2a-SK1363(xZ36827,Y14435), originally reported as J2a1, mtDNA: H10, Sopot MN, Croatia, 5000-4800 BCE/4692-4546 BCE. Sources: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post359864

    6. I1902/FEB3a Y-DNA: J2a-Z6055, originally reported as J2a, mtDNA: H44b, Lengyel LN, Hungary, 4800-4500 BCE. Source: Lipson et al. 2017. Raw data check: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i1902/

    7. I0070/Lasithi2 Y-DNA: J2a-S17259*, originally reported as J2a-M319, mtDNA: H13a1a, Minoan Lasithi, Greece, 2400-1700 BCE/2000-1700 BCE. Sources: Lazaridis et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data checks: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i0070/, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post562822

    8. I0073/Lasithi7 Y-DNA: J2a-S17259*, originally repoted as J2a(xab1b2cehi), mtDNA: H1bm, Minoan Lasithi, Greece, 2400-1700 BCE/2000-1700 BCE. Sources: Lazaridis et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data checks: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i0073/, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post562822

    9. I4331 Y-DNA: J2b-FT92472(xZ38241,BY48225), originally reported as J2b2a-L283, mtDNA: I1a1, Croatia EMBA, 1700-1500 BCE/1631-1521 BCE. Sources: Mathieson et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://j2-m172.info/2018/02/y-snp-a...on-et-al-2018/

    10. I9041/Galatas4 Y-DNA: J2a-L26(xM322,M92,M166,L210,M68,M339,P81,L24,L198), mtDNA: X2, Mycenaean Greece, 1700-1200 BCE. Source: Lazaridis et al. 2017. Raw data check: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i9041/

    11. I1504/BR2/HUNG381 Y-DNA: J2a-Y17946*, orginally reported as J2a1, mtDNA: K1a1a, Kyjatice Culture, Hungary LBA, 1270-1110 BCE. Sources: Gamba et al. 2014, Mathieson et al. 2017. Raw data check: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946*/
    Last edited by Jack Johnson; 01-10-2020 at 08:56 AM.

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  3. #92
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    Everybody there is an update on the 2 Minoan samples I0070 and I0073, thanks to the new updated of Yfull they can be placed into the new branch under S17259.

    Both I0070 and I0073 belong to J2a-M319>S17259>Y92462>Y151557 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y151557/
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  5. #93
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    Well there is some updates from the Marcus et al. Sardinia paper as we have 3 new J2b-L283 samples coming from the Nuragic Culture. The Nuragic Culture was the MLBA-LBA culture of Sardinia and an interesting one at the most. For further simple overview of the Nuragic Culture the wiki page will follow.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuragic_civilization

    The following samples are

    ORC003 dating from 3350-3150 ybp or 1350-1150 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>Z627>YP157 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YP157/

    ORC007 dating from 3300-3100 ybp or 1300-1100 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>YP91 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YP91/

    ORC008 dating from 3200-3000 ybp or 1200-1000 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>Z600* https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z600/

    In terms of how it got there and its relation to other L283 branches it would be hard to say with certainty, however since there was no J2b-L283 in the Neolithic, Chalcolithic nor Early Bronze Age Sardinia, at the moment it would be safe to hypothesize a Middle Bronze Age migration into Sardinia, since these are old branches and the oldest known L283 is coming from the Caucasus it's migration into Sardinia might look like Caucasus>Balkans>Sardinia similar to how branches under Z597 migrated into the Balkans with I-E populations.
    Last edited by Principe; 01-12-2020 at 06:49 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Well there is some updates from the Marcus et al. Sardinia paper as we have 3 new J2b-L283 samples coming from the Nuragic Culture. The Nuragic Culture was the MLBA-LBA culture of Sardinia and an interesting one at the most. For further simple overview of the Nuragic Culture the wiki page will follow.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuragic_civilization

    The following samples are

    ORC003 dating from 3350-3150 ybp or 1350-1150 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>Z627>YP157 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YP157/

    ORC007 dating from 3300-3100 ybp or 1300-1100 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>YP91 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YP91/

    ORC008 dating from 3200-3000 ybp or 1200-1000 BC, which belongs to J2b-L283>Z600* https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z600/

    In terms of how it got there and its relation to other L283 branches it would be hard to say with certainty, however since there was no J2b-L283 in the Neolithic, Chalcolithic nor Early Bronze Age at the moment it would be safe to hypothesize a Middle Bronze Age migration, since these are old branches and the oldest known L283 is coming from the Caucasus it's migration into Sardinia might look like Caucasus>Balkans>Sardinia similar to how branches under Z597 migrated into the Balkans with I-E populations.
    My prediction is J2b-L283 was in the Balkans since Early Bronze Age. The J-Z597 branch (formed 5000 ybp, TMRCA 4400 ybp) gives us a good indication as is has a clear Balkan/European structure. And the two upstream J-Z615* samples are also well within European territory. The MBA North Caucasus was negative for Z627 and YP91, and he might well represent the same split as the new Armenian on YFull (Z577- Z622-), however, I couldn't find any shared SNPs between them. So the European branches have no connection for at least 5500 years to these samples from the Caucasus region.
    Last edited by Trojet; 01-12-2020 at 06:59 PM.

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  9. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    My prediction is J-L283 was in the Balkans since Early Bronze Age. The J-Z597 branch (formed 5000 ybp, TMRCA 4400 ybp) gives us a good indication as is has a clear Balkan/European structure. And the two upstream J-Z615* samples are also well within European territory. The MBA North Caucasus was negative for Z627 and YP91, and he might well represent the same split as the new Armenian on YFull, however, I couldn't find any shared SNPs between them. So the European branches have no connection for at least ~5500 years to these samples from Transcaucasia.
    Thanks for chiming in Trojet, was hoping you were going to write, I see you as the expert on L283. I should also mention that the Middle Bronze Age migration was specific to Sardinia. I edited my post so that it shows I meant Sardinia.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Thanks for chiming in Trojet, was hoping you were going to write, I see you as the expert on L283. I should also mention that the Middle Bronze Age migration was specific to Sardinia. I edited my post so that it shows I meant Sardinia.
    Thanks for the clarification/edit as I thought you meant L283 itself migrated into Balkans/Europe during MBA.

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  13. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Thanks for the clarification/edit as I thought you meant L283 itself migrated into Balkans/Europe during MBA.
    My pleasure
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

  14. #98
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    Do you have any calls from Fernandes et al 2019? I know there were some Nuragic BA and Sicilian EBA samples in that paper. Though checking the supplementary material, there was unfortunately, contamination in some of the samples deemed to belong to Y-DNA J. Hopefully these individuals can be retested like Cheddar Man. The samples I am specifically talking about are I10553/S10553.E1 (Sardinia Nuragic BA, 1226-1056 calBCE), Y-DNA J2b2a, mtDNA J1c2, I7772 (Sicily EBA_lowcov, 3000-1600 BCE), Y-DNA J, mtDNA T2, and I7796 (Sicily EBA, 3000-1600 BCE), Y-DNA J, mtDNA H. There are a few others on the supplementary file, labeled as contaminated but still retain the J designation, one of them even being J2a1. Any further insights would be appreciated. Link to the supplementary data table from the paper:https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...?download=true

  15. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    Do you have any calls from Fernandes et al 2019? I know there were some Nuragic BA and Sicilian EBA samples in that paper. Though checking the supplementary material, there was unfortunately, contamination in some of the samples deemed to belong to Y-DNA J. Hopefully these individuals can be retested like Cheddar Man. The samples I am specifically talking about are I10553/S10553.E1 (Sardinia Nuragic BA, 1226-1056 calBCE), Y-DNA J2b2a, mtDNA J1c2, I7772 (Sicily EBA_lowcov, 3000-1600 BCE), Y-DNA J, mtDNA T2, and I7796 (Sicily EBA, 3000-1600 BCE), Y-DNA J, mtDNA H. There are a few others on the supplementary file, labeled as contaminated but still retain the J designation, one of them even being J2a1. Any further insights would be appreciated. Link to the supplementary data table from the paper:https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...?download=true
    The raw data hasn’t been released yet, when it is the J2 samples will be analyzed.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13> A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

  16. #100
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    Thanks to Principe, I have now updated my original post. The Mycenaean sample is now J2a-Z6057. There have been a few other slight changes as well:

    1. R17 Y-DNA: J2a-PreY29673, originally reported as J-M304, mtDNA: U8b1b, Neolithic, Ripabianca di Monterado, Marche, Italy, 5324-5223 BCE. Sources: Antonio et al. 2019, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Axo/edit#gid=0. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post628211

    2. R19 Y-DNA: J2a-S11842*, originally reported as J2a-L26, mtDNA: U5b3a1, Neolithic, Ripabianca di Monterado, Marche, Italy, 5345-5221 BCE. Sources: Antonio et al. 2019, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Axo/edit#gid=0. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post628211

    3. I5068 Y-DNA: J2a-Z6048(xS15572), originally reported as J2, mtDNA: T2b23, LBK Austria, 5500-4775 BCE. Source: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post354282

    4. I5207 Y-DNA: J2a-Z6048(xFGC61600,S15572), originally reported as J2a, mtDNA: H67, LBK Austria, 5500-4500 BCE. Source: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....318#post354318

    5. I5078 Y-DNA: J2a-SK1363(xZ36827,Y14435), originally reported as J2a1, mtDNA: H10, Sopot MN, Croatia, 5000-4800 BCE/4692-4546 BCE. Source: Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post359864

    6. I1902/FEB3a Y-DNA: J2a-Z6055, originally reported as J2a, mtDNA: H44b, Lengyel LN, Hungary, 4800-4500 BCE. Source: Lipson et al. 2017. Raw data check: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i1902/

    7. I0070/Lasithi2 Y-DNA: J2a-Y151557, originally reported as J2a-M319, mtDNA: H13a1a, Minoan Lasithi, Greece, 2400-1700 BCE/2000-1700 BCE. Sources: Lazaridis et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data checks: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i0070/, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post636750

    8. I0073/Lasithi7 Y-DNA: J2a-Y151557, originally repoted as J2a1(xab1ab2cehi), mtDNA: H1bm, Minoan Lasithi, Greece, 2400-1700 BCE/2000-1700 BCE. Sources: Lazaridis et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data checks: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i0073/, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post636750

    9. I4331 Y-DNA: J2b-FT92472(xZ38241,BY48225), originally reported as J2b2a-L283, mtDNA: I1a1, Croatia EMBA, 1700-1500 BCE/1631-1521 BCE. Sources: Mathieson et al. 2017, Mathieson et al. 2018. Raw data check: https://j2-m172.info/2018/02/y-snp-a...on-et-al-2018/

    10. I9041/Galatas4 Y-DNA: J2a-Z6057, originally reported as J2a1(xab1b2ceghi), mtDNA: X2, Mycenaean Greece, 1700-1200 BCE. Source: Lazaridis et al. 2017. Raw data checks: https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i9041/, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post531745

    11. ORC003 Y-DNA: J2b-YP157, originally reported as J2b2a1, mtDNA: K1a4a1, Nuragic Culture, Sardinia, Italy, 1369-1128 BCE. Source: Marcus et al. 2019. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post637286

    12. ORC007 Y-DNA: J2b-YP91, originally reported as J2b2a1, mtDNA: H1e1a, Nuragic Culture, Sardinia, Italy, 1285-1127 BCE. Source: Marcus et al. 2019. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post637286

    13. I1504/BR2/HUNG381 Y-DNA: J2a-Y17946*, originally reported as J2a1, mtDNA: K1a1a, Kyjatice Culture, Hungary LBA, 1270-1110 BCE. Sources: Gamba et al. 2014, Mathieson et al. 2017. Raw data check: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946*/

    14. ORC008 Y-DNA: J2b-Z600*, originally reported as J2b2a1, mtDNA: H1, Nuragic Culture, Sardinia, Italy, 1191-999 BCE. Source: Marcus et al. 2019. Raw data check: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post637286
    Last edited by Jack Johnson; 01-20-2020 at 08:31 PM.

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