The History of J2

[Principe]

I emailed one of the authors and got this response about the Uyelgi11 sample.

"thank you for highlighting this misinterpretation of Y-chromosomal haplogroup!

We classified the Y-haplogroups based on Y-SNPs as well as Y-STRs (both were incomplete), so based on SNP set we were able to determine only the J2, and based on STRs it could be J2b1 M205 (or J2a1 M31)9. But the correct result is the J2*, we will revise the Fig.4."

Hopefully the raw data will be released at some point. I think that it is more likely to be J2b1-M205 than J2a-M319 though.

Thanks Jman for the update, I appreciate it!

[Principe]

A little update now on the Bronze Age Sicilian sample

I7796, Contrada Paolina, Castelluccio Culture, 1900-1700 BC or 3900-3700 ybp, is now J2a-P5197>PF5174 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF5174/

Unfortunately nothing really could be called further

Main negatives are: PF7421, Z3708

No calls for PF5177, PF5252

Its hard to know if any further branches would be called if the sample quality was better, though odds are based on the main negatives would likely fall under PF5252.

[Principe]

Now to start with the samples from a Fascinating paper, The Southern Levant paper, which has 8 J2 samples, interestingly all 8 samples are found in 2 locations separated over time, Megiddo and Yehud. The samples split into 3 J2a's and 5 J2b's, this is so far the oldest J2a samples found in Israel and Southern Levant.

The J2a's will be shown first

I10266, Tel Megiddo, MLBA, 1600-1400 BCE or 3600-3400 ybp, is J2a2-L581>PF5000 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF5000/

Main Negatives: P279, Y29673
Ambiguous Negative: PF4993


I2190, Tel Megiddo, MLBA, 1500-1300 BCE or 3500-3300 ybp, is J2a-PF5119>M67>Z500>M92 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M92/

Main Negatives: Z8096 (CTS2906), PH672, Y18411
No calls: Z508, Z504, PF7412, SK1344, Z515

I4519, Tel Megiddo, MLBA, 1500-1400 BCE or 3500-3400 ybp, is J2a-PF5119>M67>Z500>M92 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M92/

No calls: Z508, Z504, PF7412, SK1344, Z515, Z8096 (CTS2906)

I will post later for the J2b's.

[Principe]

For the J2b, we have 5 samples, with four coming from Yehud and 1 coming from Megiddo

I4521, Tel Megiddo, EBA, 2300-2100 BCE or 4300-4100 ybp, is J2b-M205 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

I7182, Tel Yehud, EBA, 2500-2100 BCE or 4500-4100 ybp, is J2b-M205 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

I7003, Tel Yehud, EBA, 2500-2100 BCE or 4500-4100 ybp, is J2b-M205 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

I6923, Tel Yehud, EBA, 2500-2100 BCE or 4500-4100 ybp, is J2b-M205 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

I6928, Tel Yehud, EBA, 2500-2100 BCE or 4500-4100 ybp, is J2b-M205 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

Unfortunately I was not able to find any positives snps downstream

I have found a couple of negatives: Y47134, Y134194

These samples further reinforces J2b-M205's role in Semitic speakers, and is one of the foundational Semitic branches, J2b-M205 seems to have been a hugely important branch for the Levant region, with now Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and neighbouring Egypt all having ancient dna individuals in this branch.

[J Man]

An interesting post on the haplogroup J2 group on Facebook about a modern Uyghur sample that shares some SNP markers with both modern day Turkish samples and ancient Turkic samples.

"The Turkish Uyghur sample from China, HGDP01304 from the global HGDP project, was analyzed by Yfull, and it was found that it is within J-BY114993 and this sample is important in knowing the history of the original branch J2-L581 and the history of the Turkish language
Since the sample has a common ancestor with current Turkish samples and old samples, this indicates migrations from Central Asia towards Anatolia and present-day Turkey.
There is a possibility of the relationship of the Elamite language with the Proto-Turkish language and a migration from the Iranian plateau to Central Asia due to drought or the spread of agriculture and the relationship of the Haplogroups to the Agglutinative language

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY114993/"

[davit]

An interesting post on the haplogroup J2 group on Facebook about a modern Uyghur sample that shares some SNP markers with both modern day Turkish samples and ancient Turkic samples.

"The Turkish Uyghur sample from China, HGDP01304 from the global HGDP project, was analyzed by Yfull, and it was found that it is within J-BY114993 and this sample is important in knowing the history of the original branch J2-L581 and the history of the Turkish language
Since the sample has a common ancestor with current Turkish samples and old samples, this indicates migrations from Central Asia towards Anatolia and present-day Turkey.
There is a possibility of the relationship of the Elamite language with the Proto-Turkish language and a migration from the Iranian plateau to Central Asia due to drought or the spread of agriculture and the relationship of the Haplogroups to the Agglutinative language

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY114993/"

Nice. I've never seen so much nonsense in one statement. Surprised they didn't claim Sumerian, yamnaya and corded ware weren't related to Proto turkish in addition to elamite.

[Johnny ola]

An interesting post on the haplogroup J2 group on Facebook about a modern Uyghur sample that shares some SNP markers with both modern day Turkish samples and ancient Turkic samples.

"The Turkish Uyghur sample from China, HGDP01304 from the global HGDP project, was analyzed by Yfull, and it was found that it is within J-BY114993 and this sample is important in knowing the history of the original branch J2-L581 and the history of the Turkish language
Since the sample has a common ancestor with current Turkish samples and old samples, this indicates migrations from Central Asia towards Anatolia and present-day Turkey.
There is a possibility of the relationship of the Elamite language with the Proto-Turkish language and a migration from the Iranian plateau to Central Asia due to drought or the spread of agriculture and the relationship of the Haplogroups to the Agglutinative language

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY114993/"

Turkocentrism blog? Elamites were prolly heavily Iran N people. Some scholars have suggested the Elamo-darvidian relation BTW.

[J Man]

Nice. I've never seen so much nonsense in one statement. Surprised they didn't claim Sumerian, yamnaya and corded ware weren't related to Proto turkish in addition to elamite.

Yeah I don't think that Elamite is related in any way to the origins of the Turkic language either. I'm more interested in this Uyghur samples Y-DNA link to both modern day and ancient Turkic samples.

[Principe]

@Johnny Ola, Davit, and Jman

The branch in question very likely entered the Turkic gene pool via Saka (Eastern Scythians), it was likely originally a pre IE BMAC marker, Kazakhstan still doesn't have that much coverage, it is likely where we'll find it, along with FGC9961.