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Thread: DE/YAP+ origin?

  1. #1
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    DE/YAP+ origin?

    On the basis of what evidence do some claim that DE/YAP+ originated in Asia?

    IIRC, the majority opinion is that it originated in (likely Eastern) Africa and spread from there. DE* has been found in Western Africa and more recently in Tibet. E is of course the haplogroup in Africa, while D is only present in some diverse and "ancient" populations in Asia (e.g. Ainu, Andamans, Tibetans).

    Obviously, prevalence doesn't prove anything, but I do think an African origin is more likely than a back-migration so successful it takes over the continent. In fact, many of those lay persons arguing on the internet probably have ulterior motives, wanting to classify E1b1b as Eurasian.

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    Surely if DE* was discovered in both Western Africa and Tibet one would postulate an origin at any point in-between the two?

    From what you've described alone (more evidence/data would help fine-tune the possibilities) I don't see anything to suggest DE*-YAP+ definitively originated in Africa.

    One could argue the cases of DE*-YAP+ in either location is simply a function of prehistoric demic diffusion from a more medial position, such as the Arabian Peninsula. Such a proposal also explains why E is pred. located in Africa and portions of West Eurasia, whilst D is located deep inside Asia (i.e. branching in two directions from the intermediate source).

    I don't claim any special insight on this matter, but again, there are more possibilities than what you are proposing with confidence here.

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    Right, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I just think the evidence points to an African origin.

    We know there were humans in Africa when DE/YAP+ arose, but we're still not sure of when the major Out-of-Africa migration occurred exactly. They're both around 60-70kya, though, so if the OOA migration were the major peopling event of Eurasia, we'd expect to see a lot more D throughout the region. Instead, it's CF in which the majority of Eurasian clades fall in, while the majority of African clades fall in DE. Coincidence? I think not.

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    The Eurasian origin theories for YAP are mainly based on the fact that in the CT-M168 group only E is considered 'African'. Also, there's the theory that proto-Eurasians (CT-M168 clan) underwent a major genetic bottleneck around 75-55 kya due to hyper-aridity conditions of that period in the Middle East (explaining the CT-M168 bottleneck). IMO, they should give those various DE* samples new sub-clades and more ancient DNA (pre-Neolithic/upper-Paleolithic) samples from Africa should be analyzed to give us a clearer picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    The Eurasian origin theories for YAP are mainly based on the fact that in the CT-M168 group only E is considered 'African'.
    Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Where are we in knowing the origin of M168? I guess nowhere, since no CT* men are known.

    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    Also, there's the theory that proto-Eurasians (CT-M168 clan) underwent a major genetic bottleneck around 75-55 kya due to hyper-aridity conditions of that period in the Middle East (explaining the CT-M168 bottleneck). IMO, they should give those various DE* samples new sub-clades and more ancient DNA (pre-Neolithic/upper-Paleolithic) samples from Africa should be analyzed to give us a clearer picture.
    Yes, more DE* samples and resolving clades would go a long way to solving this problem. Then we could just find the region of greatest DE(xD,E) diversity.

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    The origin of DE is ambiguous. It may represent a post-OOA migration into Africa, or a later migration out of Africa. Another likely possibility is that it was part of the same OOA migration that spread Y-DNA CT into Eurasia. This is supported by the very close age estimates of CT and DE (the absolute dates may be incorrect, but the relative ages should be right).

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    As far as I know, the only long (and FTDNA) haplotype of a DE* comes from Syria. See kit 130501 in the Early Branches project. He lists 37 markers, but an upgrade to 67 has been ordered.

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