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Thread: West Slavs vs. East Germans: genetic comparison

  1. #151
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    His father and grandfather were born in the region of Namslau in former Upper Silesia. In this tweet, he made a joke about his Eastern Euro heritage, explaining why he stole so much in his youth.

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  3. #152
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    There was an update based on my 15 regions:

    https://www.livingdna.com/en-eu/one-...esearch/poland

    It's nice that Living DNA has updated its Polish regions. I can only add that I tried to keep the number of regions rather small. I think that 15 regions is enough. But if we wanted, we could distinguish many small sub-regions within each of these 15 regions.

    Many small ethnographic sub-groups can be distinguished. For example:

    Powislans (Powiślanie) - Northern Poland
    Krajniaks (Krajniacy) - Northern Poland
    Kuyavians (Kujawiacy) - Northern Poland
    Kociewiaks (Kociewiacy) - Northern Poland
    Borowiaks (Borowiacy) - Northern Poland
    Dobrzyniaks (Dobrzyniacy) - Northern Poland
    Chelmniaks (Chełmniacy) - Northern Poland
    Mennonites (Mennonici) - Northern Poland

    Podlachians (Podlasianie) - Sudovia-Podlachia
    Poleshuks (Poleszucy) - Sudovia-Podlachia
    Lipka Tatars (Lipkowie) - Sudovia-Podlachia
    Sudovians (Suwalszczanie) - Sudovia-Podlachia
    Starovers (Starowiercy) - Sudovia-Podlachia

    Lachs (Lachy) - Polish Mountains
    Polish Gorals* (Górale Polscy) - Polish Mountains
    Spisoks (Spiszacy) - Polish Mountains
    Oraviaks (Orawiacy) - Polish Mountains
    Dolinians (Dolinianie) - Polish Mountains
    Lemkos (Łemkowie) - Polish Mountains
    Boykos (Bojkowie) - Polish Mountains
    Hutsuls (Huculi) - Polish Mountains

    *Polish Gorals can be further divided into smaller subgroups.

    Pogorzans (Pogórzanie) - PL Mountains / Lesser PL / Red Ruthenia borders
    Deaf Germans (Głuchoniemcy) - PL Mountains / Lesser PL / Red Ruthenia

    Krakowiaks (Krakowiacy) - Lesser Poland
    Lasowiaks (Lasowiacy) - Lesser Poland
    Zaglebiaks (Zagłębiacy) - Lesser Poland
    Vilamovians (Wilamowianie) - Lesser Poland
    Halcnovians (Hałcnowianie) - Lesser Poland
    Lasowiaks (Lasowiacy) - Lesser Poland
    Sandomirians (Sandomierzacy) - Lesser Poland
    Posaniaks (Posaniacy) - Lesser Poland

    Lubliniaks (Lubliniacy) - Red Ruthenia
    Rusyns (Rusini) - Red Ruthenia
    Galicians (Galicjanie) - Red Ruthenia
    Zaborowiaks (Zaborowiacy) - Red Ruthenia
    Rzeszowiaks (Rzeszowiacy) - Red Ruthenia

    Paluczans (Pałuczanie) - Greater Poland
    Hazaks (Hazacy) - Greater Poland
    Chwalimiaks (Chwalimiacy) - Greater Poland
    Wielen Mazurs (Mazurzy Wieleńscy) - Greater Poland
    Biskupians (Biskupianie) - Greater Poland
    Kaliszaks (Kaliszacy) - Greater Poland
    Poznaniaks (Poznaniacy) - Greater Poland
    Tastaks (Taśtacy) - Greater Poland
    Porzeczans (Porzeczanie) - Greater Poland
    Szamotulans (Szamotulanie) - Greater Poland
    Gostynians (Gostynianie) - Greater Poland
    Hanobers (Hanobrzy) - Greater Poland
    Bambers (Bambrzy) - Greater Poland

    Kurpies (Kurpie) - Masovia
    Varsovians (Warszawiacy) - Mazovia
    Poborzans (Poborzanie) - Mazovia
    Lowiczans (Łowiczanie) - Mazovia
    Karaims (Karaimi) - Masovia

    Silesians** (Ślązacy) - Upper Silesia
    Opolans (Opolanie) - Upper Silesia
    Cieszyniaks (Cieszyniacy) - Upper Silesia
    Silesian Gorals (Górale Śląscy) - Upper Silesia
    Walachs (Wałasi Śląscy) - Upper Silesia

    Kashubians** (Kaszubi) - Pomerelia
    Slovincians (Słowińcy) - Pomerelia

    **Both Silesians and Kashubians can be further divided into smaller sub-groups.

    Leczycans (Łęczycanie) - Central Poland
    Sieradzans (Sieradzanie) - Central Poland

    Mazurians (Mazurzy) - Warmia-Masuria
    Warmiaks (Warmiacy) - Warmia-Masuria

    Sorbs (Łużyczanie) - Lower Silesia

    Oder Wends (Wendowie) - Neumark

    =====

    In former eastern Polish lands, we can distinguish at least 2 major groups:

    North Kresowiaks (Pn. Kresowiacy)
    South Kresowiaks (Pd. Kresowiacy)

    =====

    In addition we can distinguish major ethnic-national minorities, such as:

    Germans*** (Niemcy) - settled in most regions of Poland
    Polish Jews (Żydzi) - once widespread throughout Poland
    Dutch (Olędrzy) - mainly west and north of Poland
    Armenians (Ormianie) - mainly south and east of Poland
    Scots (Szkoci) - dispersed throughout Poland
    Ukrainians (Ukraińcy) - south-eastern Poland
    Belarusians (Białorusini) - north-eastern Poland
    Lithuanians (Litwini) - north-eastern Poland
    Russians (Rosjanie) - mainly Starovers but not only
    Czechs (Czesi) - including Czech Brethren refugees
    Slovaks (Słowacy) - in southern Polish borderland
    Hungarians (Węgrzy) - some historical settlements
    Roma (Romowie) - dispersed throughout Poland

    ***We can distinguish many ethnographic/regional groups among East Germans.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 02-02-2018 at 05:43 PM.

  4. #153
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    Surnames typical for Germans of Kosznajderia (Koschneiderei) region: Rhode, Panske, Senske, Rink, Pankau, Schwemin, Semrau, Latzke, Patzke, Janowitz, Wollschläger, Risop, Behrendt, Musolf, Nelke, Weinland, Papenfuss, Gersch, Brauer, Schreiber, Thiede, Theus, Gatz, Hoppe, Kuchenbecker, Scheffler, Schwanitz, Klinger, Schmelter, Warnke, Rosentreter, Isbaner, Fethke, Ruhnke, Folleher.

  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Surnames typical for Germans of Kosznajderia (Koschneiderei) region: Rhode, Panske, Senske, Rink, Pankau, Schwemin, Semrau, Latzke, Patzke, Janowitz, Wollschläger, Risop, Behrendt, Musolf, Nelke, Weinland, Papenfuss, Gersch, Brauer, Schreiber, Thiede, Theus, Gatz, Hoppe, Kuchenbecker, Scheffler, Schwanitz, Klinger, Schmelter, Warnke, Rosentreter, Isbaner, Fethke, Ruhnke, Folleher.
    Some of those are Slavic surnames. Which is weird considering that Koschneiders originally came from the Osnabrück region in Lower Saxony and Westphalia. Apparently they assimilated local Slavic population, which Germanized its surnames.

  6. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Gottschalk is an etymological German first name. Gott = god, Schal(c)k = servant.

    The Nigeria a some sort of MyHeritage bug. Almost everyone gets some 0.6-1.5% Nigeria who uploads the latest 1 1/2 month.
    Last edited by rothaer; 02-13-2018 at 03:23 PM.

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  8. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Some of those are Slavic surnames. Which is weird considering that Koschneiders originally came from the Osnabrück region in Lower Saxony and Westphalia. Apparently they assimilated local Slavic population, which Germanized its surnames.
    Fully agree with the names. I think it´s just this first German settlement is known and then it´s not looked at what happened the next 400 years. And, of course there must have been a local Slavic population, at least in direct neighborhood.

    Also, depending on when they came, they did maybe not have any surnames at arrival.
    Last edited by rothaer; 02-13-2018 at 03:35 PM.

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  10. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothaer View Post
    Also, depending on when they came, they did maybe not have any surnames at arrival.
    They came around 1435-1450.

  11. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    They came around 1435-1450.
    It is hard to determine, if they already had fixated family names at that period. I tend to say yes. The mayor (Dorfschulz) of Cekzin - this is one of the villages - came from the village of Schwemmin close to Köslin in Pommern in 1342 and got the family name Schwemin.

    This family name was kept, but it seems to partly have changed to Szweminski in the mean time. Here you see some more names.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciecho...lzen_zu_Cekzin

    However this indicates the Osnabrück people were far not the only in Koschneiderei.
    Last edited by rothaer; 02-14-2018 at 08:26 AM.

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