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Thread: Past Big Y testers get special deal on Y STR upgrades

  1. #71
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    I went for the upgrade as well since it was never going to be that cheap again! I went from Y-37 to Y-111. I have 41 matches on Y-67 with two matches having a genetic distance of 2. I have 11 matches at Y-111 with the closest having a genetic distance of 7. It's a shame that neither of my 2 genetic distance matches at Y-67 went for Y-111 (well only one of them did the Big Y). It would have been interesting to see the genetic distance at that level. At Y-37 they were a genetic distance of 1 to me so I'd be interested to see if that pattern continued or they just remained at 2 at Y-111 like Y-67. Oh well. They might decide to go for it in the future.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Roscommon, Galway, Mayo)
    Paternal ancestor (Y): Martin Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (U Maine/Hy Many)
    Father's mtDNA: Catherine Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon (H27e)
    Maternal ancestor (mt): Anne McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    Paternal great grandfather (mt): Mary Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    I went for the upgrade as well since it was never going to be that cheap again! I went from Y-37 to Y-111. I have 41 matches on Y-67 with two matches having a genetic distance of 2. I have 11 matches at Y-111 with the closest having a genetic distance of 7. It's a shame that neither of my 2 genetic distance matches at Y-67 went for Y-111 (well only one of them did the Big Y). It would have been interesting to see the genetic distance at that level. At Y-37 they were a genetic distance of 1 to me so I'd be interested to see if that pattern continued or they just remained at 2 at Y-111 like Y-67. Oh well. They might decide to go for it in the future.
    It turns out that my 2 genetic match at Y-67 went for the Y-111! It just goes to show that it was a good investment. It followed the same pattern with him being a 3 genetic distance to me at Y-111. It's still quite close though. I would think that we have a shared paternal ancestor in 1700s or 1600s at the earliest based on this. At first we thought that it was definitely in the 1700s since I share autosomal DNA with him but it turned out to be on my mum's side. It was that shared autosomal DNA that made me go for the Y-DNA in the first place and it wasn't even on the paternal line. It's quite a coincidence that he still ended up being quite a close match in Y DNA terms anyway.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Roscommon, Galway, Mayo)
    Paternal ancestor (Y): Martin Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (U Maine/Hy Many)
    Father's mtDNA: Catherine Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon (H27e)
    Maternal ancestor (mt): Anne McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    Paternal great grandfather (mt): Mary Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)

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  5. #73
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    STR's mostly confuse me... I fear it's totally random, but makes me curious that my STR calls are so far from everybody else on my terminal SNP (Although it seems mine could be older branch than others - Dante Labs and Big Y both give about 1800 ybp on YFull vs. 1200 ybp average for others on my terminal SNP). Heck, according to YFull, my branching point is older than the parent clades our line has supposed to have branched from (1750ybp up to I1-L258). On an interesting note, YFull called 101 STR's out of FTDNA 111 from my BigY data when I still had only 37 markers. Now that I've upgraded to 111 markers, I can tell all the alleles YFull called were same as FTDNA (With the Y-GGAAT-1B07 adjustment), so in essence I just paid to get those listed on FTDNA's database.
    And the full 111 STR's don't solve the oddity with my STR-profile being so far from my terminal haplogroup's modal. FTDNA's TIP gives 12 and 19 generations for 95% confidence for my only two 111-marker matches there, which I suppose roughly agrees with YFull's 1800 ybp on SNP's (Though I haven't got the slightest idea how FTDNA's confidence levels should actually be interpreted in this case). YFull's "STR Variants" shows FTDNA's 67-markers would've at least theoretically been enough to determine my terminal haplogroup, though it'd been pretty misleading (In fact at the time I took Big Y, even 111 markers wouldn't have been enough).
    Now to just hope everybody else on my terminal group on FTDNA transfers to YFull so I can get newer terminal SNP, that can be seen on FTDNA but hasn't yet been made new branch... Although I bet it will make YFull's chronology even more confusing, lol.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donwulff View Post
    STR's mostly confuse me... I fear it's totally random, but makes me curious that my STR calls are so far from everybody else on my terminal SNP (Although it seems mine could be older branch than others - Dante Labs and Big Y both give about 1800 ybp on YFull vs. 1200 ybp average for others on my terminal SNP). Heck, according to YFull, my branching point is older than the parent clades our line has supposed to have branched from (1750ybp up to I1-L258). ... .
    Do you have particular questions about Y STRs? Generally, STR signatures coincide with subclades and that is confirmed by SNPs but there are lots of in's and out's to all of this.

    I just checked the R-L21 project which has a fairly aggressive group of testers. Many of the Holiday sale STR upgrades have already come in but there are over a hundred still to go. It looks like we'll have 60% of the project at Y111 by the end of February. It's a pretty big project so that's pretty good.

    A similar project but not as big is the R-DF27 project. They should end up at close to 59% Y111 penetration, which means they've done some catch-up with L21.

    There will be some overlap in this number but the R1b all subclades project has about 350 Y111 upgrades still pending.

  7. #75
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    Its certainly possible to have clades as old as 1100 years where there are NO markers in the 68-111 set
    that are diagnostic.

    We almost have that in the R1a-CTS4179-YP330 Clan Donald. In fact the only truly reliable STR
    marker appears to be DYS458. There is the case of DYS710, marker #68, which APPARENTLY
    and ALMOST is reliable for my own clade L175, but there is an exception.

    Otherwise, it really means that men who are YP330 (even in fact YP280 or YP275) must pay
    for either a BigY or Z284 SNP pack to be certain. And even the Z284 SNP Pack can't classify
    everybody because the method used cannot measure CLD50 or CLD56 or CLD57, nor can Sanger.

    My advice to people contemplating upgrading 67 -> 111 is to ask the appropriate haplogroup
    admin if it would be expected to be useful. 37 -> 67 is almost always useful.

    I have tried to find more useful [edit] STRs beyond 111, but have failed to find USEFUL ones for
    clade separation in YP275.


    Edit: I rechecked my attempt to find new STRs beyond 111. In all the BAMs I have, lots of R1a and R1b,
    and a few I and two each Q and N, I found 111 (a complete coincidence!) that are variable, are measured in
    at least a few files, and appear at first glance to be reliable.

    There are 19 of them that at least "almost reliably" discriminate R1a-CTS4179 from at least one
    other substantial clade but none that are useful inside YP275.

    Presumably YFull has also found these, they just refuse to tell us what their DYR designations mean.
    Presumably FTDNA will find them too.
    Last edited by dtvmcdonald; 01-11-2018 at 09:17 PM.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Do you have particular questions about Y STRs? Generally, STR signatures coincide with subclades and that is confirmed by SNPs but there are lots of in's and out's to all of this.
    Not really a question, more an experience and reflection on its usefulness for me on the Y-STR 111 upgrade, since that's the topic of the thread. I didn't expect it to bring much with Big Y already done. If people still keep doing STR-tests instead of Big Y in the future, it'll be useful since the STR-profile for my line is bit of an outlier.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    I went for the upgrade as well since it was never going to be that cheap again! I went from Y-37 to Y-111. I have 41 matches on Y-67 with two matches having a genetic distance of 2. I have 11 matches at Y-111 with the closest having a genetic distance of 7. It's a shame that neither of my 2 genetic distance matches at Y-67 went for Y-111 (well only one of them did the Big Y). It would have been interesting to see the genetic distance at that level. At Y-37 they were a genetic distance of 1 to me so I'd be interested to see if that pattern continued or they just remained at 2 at Y-111 like Y-67. Oh well. They might decide to go for it in the future.
    I'm a little envious of the amount of matches you have at 67 and 111 markers, I have 7 matches at 67 markers (a few of which are exact matches and known cousins, the rest are GDs of 5, 6 and 7) and 1 match at 111 markers (a known cousin). Perhaps my haplogroup and haplotype are to blame!
    Y-DNA: I-A14097 [Big Y: Complete] (Scotland), Big Y: I-Z140>F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2 (Ireland), R-L21 x2 (Ireland & Scotland), I-M223 (Ireland), R-S1141 (Scotland), R-U198 & R-U106 (Netherlands), mtHg J1c3 (Ireland)
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  11. #78
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    I had some interesting and unexpected results from my upgrade to 111 markers. I maintained 5 matches at that level, two of whom were surname matches. I also had two who were 7 step matches and another was a 10 step match.

    In the process of asking them to join the Z140 Project, the two 7 step matches, who both have different surnames, independently told me that they thought their MDKAs may have originally had my surname. Sure enough, once they joined and I could see their results, six or seven of their markers seemed to be aligning with my surname matches, as opposed to the others in our group. When I checked them against my YFull results, six of those markers were listed as Private Mutations of mine.

    I’m not sure how telling that is, as they’re approximately 400 years away from me. Nevertheless, it did keep me busy for a few days.
    Last edited by JMcB; 01-13-2018 at 01:04 AM.

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  13. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donwulff View Post
    ... If people still keep doing STR-tests instead of Big Y in the future, it'll be useful since the STR-profile for my line is bit of an outlier.
    I hope that people will do both Big Y and Y111 STR testing. Many already have but I don't see Big Y as a replacement for Y111 by any means since Big Y extracted STRs will miss 39 STRs out of the 1-111 used in the STR matching database.
    Likewise, Y111 is not even close to being a substitute for Big Y. That's a huge understatement.

    Realistically, not everyone will do Big Y. Not everyone is even interested in Y DNA testing but Y STR does hold the possibility of incremental upgrades over a period of time, allowing budgets to be stretched out to get to Y111.

  14. #80
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    H95a- Ostrogoth

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Austria Tirol Australia Eureka
    I just received my y111 results , early, batch 814 was suppose to be done in early february

    from my y67 to this y111 , i have another 6 differences from the people that are grouped with me in ftdna , although we all have T-Z19945
    These walloons/east french are my closest people , but I cannot see any link .

    Ancient Walloons are supposed to be Germanics mixing with Gallic at the time of the Roman empire, I am unsure though.

    Ftdna for Bigy still works after these Y111 and there is no change

    European = 99.2%............Central Asian = 0.8% .............Yfull - 1460BC
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

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