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Thread: Were the Achaemenids and Medians primarily of Sintashta or BMAC descent?

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    Were the Achaemenids and Medians primarily of Sintashta or BMAC descent?

    Hello everyone,

    I just had a minor question, though not very minor I guess. I was wondering, were the Achaemenids of mostly Sintashta/Srubnaya ancestry or were they of BMAC ancestry? The debate over the Achaemenids has been just as controversial as the debate for over the origins of the Vedic Aryans. Many have long asserted that the Achaemenids were heavily of Nordic ancestry, in this case, Sintashta. Though, I highly doubt it and consider them to be more likely at least half BMAC derived, and half steppe. Does anyone here have any thoughts? Based on the ancient Achaemenid depictions, they do not seem Nordic, especially the bust of Atossa, which has a more Iranic look, as opposed to a European look.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e_Great%29.jpg
    http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images...un01_small.jpg
    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...ure-id78952069

    Thank you, would really appreciate some feedback. It's an interesting thing to ponder.

    Xehanort

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I just had a minor question, though not very minor I guess. I was wondering, were the Achaemenids of mostly Sintashta/Srubnaya ancestry or were they of BMAC ancestry? The debate over the Achaemenids has been just as controversial as the debate for over the origins of the Vedic Aryans. Many have long asserted that the Achaemenids were heavily of Nordic ancestry, in this case, Sintashta. Though, I highly doubt it and consider them to be more likely at least half BMAC derived, and half steppe. Does anyone here have any thoughts? Based on the ancient Achaemenid depictions, they do not seem Nordic, especially the bust of Atossa, which has a more Iranic look, as opposed to a European look.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e_Great%29.jpg
    http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images...un01_small.jpg
    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...ure-id78952069

    Thank you, would really appreciate some feedback. It's an interesting thing to ponder.

    Xehanort
    Who are the they?

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    African Union Ainu AchaemenidEmpire1 Kurdistan Star of David Dravida Nadu
    Some Possible Iranics or early Indo iranians from BMAC and nearby areas:


    Outlier from Sappali, Uzbekistan
    Sappali_Tepe_BA_o This individual has significant amounts of Steppe_MLBA related 2486 ancestry. 2487 2488 • UZ-ST-010 (I7493): Date of 2000-1600 BCE. Genetically male.

    31.6% Sintashta
    18.7% Tepe_Anau_EN (Farmer from Turkmenistan)
    49.6% Hajji_Firuz_C (Iran ChL group, 50% anatolian farmer 50% farmer)


    Outliers from: Dzharkutan, Uzbekistan

    Dzharkutan2_BA:


    Dzharkutan2_BA These two samples have significant amounts of Steppe_MLBA related ancestry • UZ-JAR-021 (I4901): Date of 2100-1800 BCE. Genetically female. • UZ-JAR-022 (I5608): Date of 2100-1800 BCE. Genetically female.

    20% Corded Ware Czech
    65% Armenia EBA
    15% Irula


    Outlier from Turkmenistan:
    Parkhai_LBA_o: Parkhai I, Turkmenistan (n=1). This individual had additional steppe pastoralist related ancestry
    Date: 1497-1413 cal BCE

    17.8% Andronovo
    20.4% Parkhai Early neolithic (Farmer from Turkmenistan)
    61.8% Sarazam early neolithic (Farmer from Tajikistan)


    Bustan_BA: Bustan, post-Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex, Uzbekistan
    1600-1300 BCE

    Less than 10% Steppe on average, Mostly Iran/Central Asian neolithic with some minor ENF.

    Darra-i-kur_MBA, Northern Afghanistan, 2850-2460 cal BCE

    12-20% Steppe, rest is central Asian farmer


    Gonur1_BA_o2 These samples have significant amount of ancestry related to Steppe_MLBA. 2277-2030 cal BCE. Genetically male. Turkmenistan.

    29% Khvalynsk_EN
    20.1% Okunevo
    50.9% Parkhai_EN

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    The ancient Medes and Persians were not much different to Modern day Iranians. Iranians came to West Iran long before the Median empire was established. They absorbed a lot of the native people like Kassites,Hurrians,Elamites.

    If you look at Lur traditional clothes it resembles Median reliefs, same hat, similar clothes.

    People who think they were Nordic white with blond hair and blue eyes, you are surely mistaken.

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    Iran Sassanid Empire
    It's very difficult to answer without actual Achaemenid and Sassanid samples.

    Western Iranians are largely a mix between Chacolithic Iranian Farmers and Sintashta steppe people. Using nMonte, Modern Iranian Zoroastrians are about 26% Sintashta on average. The question is how much Sintashta did Median, Achaemenid, Parthian, and Sassanids possess?

    The thing about the IA samples from Turkmenistan, which have a lot of steppe admixture, is they came long before the formation of Median and Achaemenid empires. They also have more Neolithic Iranian, I believe. I predict Eastern Iranians like Bactrians and Sogdians had a lot of steppe admixture (~%35-45), but I think ancient Western Iranians like Persians and Medes had more like 25-30%.

    I could be wrong until we get samples though. I think Eastern Iran was a lot like Northern Europe, in regards to high steppe admixture, but Western Iran was more like Southern Europe, in regards to moderate or low amounts of steppe admixture. Also, do not underestimate how important Bactrians and Sogdians were to Greater Iran empire. For example, Zarathustra was most likely a Bactrian.

    That's my prediction.
    Last edited by CatsRule; 08-04-2018 at 08:30 PM.
    "distance%=2.3743 / distance=0.023743"
    Seh_Gabi_ChL 72.05 (basically, these are the Iranian farmers that mixed with the Aryans)
    Sintashta_MLBA 24.50 (basically, these are the original Aryans of Sintashta)
    Mongolian 3.45

    Conclusion:: I have strong genetic continuity with Sassanids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsRule View Post
    It's very difficult to answer without actual Achaemenid and Sassanid samples.

    Western Iranians are largely a mix between Chacolithic Iranian Farmers and Sintashta steppe people. Using nMonte, Modern Iranian Zoroastrians are about 26% Sintashta on average. The question is how much Sintashta did Median, Achaemenid, Parthian, and Sassanids possess?

    The thing about the IA samples from Turkmenistan, which have a lot of steppe admixture, is they came long before the formation of Median and Achaemenid empires. They also have more Neolithic Iranian, I believe. I predict Eastern Iranians like Bactrians and Sogdians had a lot of steppe admixture (~%35-45), but I think ancient Western Iranians like Persians and Medes had more like 25-30%.

    I could be wrong until we get samples though. I think Eastern Iran was a lot like Northern Europe, in regards to high steppe admixture, but Western Iran was more like Southern Europe, in regards to moderate or low amounts of steppe admixture. Also, do not underestimate how important Bactrians and Sogdians were to Greater Iran empire. For example, Zarathustra was most likely a Bactrian.

    That's my prediction.
    Is it possible that Zoroaster may have had substantial steppe DNA?

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    Iran Sassanid Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Is it possible that Zoroaster may have had substantial steppe DNA?
    It is possible, considering he was most likely Bactrian. He probably resembled the IA sample taken from Turkmenistan recently. It clusters near Tajiks.

    Turkmenistan_IA
    Dzharkutan1_BA 0.5300.037 (this is the Iranian Neolithic component)
    Srubnaya_MLBA 0.4700.037 (this is the steppe admixture)
    taildiff: 0.485083377

    Tajik
    Turkmenistan_IA 0.8920.023
    Han 0.1080.023
    taildiff: 0.794566182
    Full output
    Last edited by CatsRule; 09-06-2018 at 11:53 PM.
    "distance%=2.3743 / distance=0.023743"
    Seh_Gabi_ChL 72.05 (basically, these are the Iranian farmers that mixed with the Aryans)
    Sintashta_MLBA 24.50 (basically, these are the original Aryans of Sintashta)
    Mongolian 3.45

    Conclusion:: I have strong genetic continuity with Sassanids.

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